Oil and gas - it's not running out!

[HillBill]

Why do i need to do your searching for you?

But just to set you on your way to doing something for yourself, rather than demanding i provide you with evidence...... heres the first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car
Don't need oil what gasoline/petroleum can be made from renewable biomass

patent for getting energy from water
http://www.google.com/patents/EP2438291B1?cl=en

Very interesting, HB. And as patents are publicly available to all to view, I'm looking forward to your evidence of all this cover-up of cheap energy generation!

(oh - and as the Chinese (and others) have been ignoring patent law for centuries, I'm surprised they still need to buy such huge quantities of oil and gas on the open market, seeing as they would have been using all those cheap methods to generate electricity in-house!)

 

[santaman2000]

Why do i need to do your searching for you?

But just to set you on your way to doing something for yourself, rather than demanding i provide you with evidence...... heres the first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car
Don't need oil what gasoline/petroleum can be made from renewable biomass.....

The trouble with renewable biomass is that it conumes energy to grow the crop (be it soybeans, corn, or whatever) in the form of diesel used in the farming tractors, the semi-trucks transporting the crop to the refineries and more energy in the form of electricity at the refineries themselves. Usually more energy than is produced. It's basicly the long way to use solar energy (solar energy converted throughphotosynthesis to biomass and then refined to energy again) rather than the short way (converting solar energy directly to electricity cutting out loss in the intervening stages)

On top of that, it takes away cropland from food crops.

 

[HillBill]

It wouldn't be a quick soloution. But they could convert the processing plants to use hydro electricity generators so they are self sustaining and all the vehicles could run off the fuel produced by the biomass.

It'd be a slowish change, but could be done

 

[Andy BB]

Brilliant, HB! From your initial hype of "them" holding patents for cheap energy but not using them, there was me expecting some patent held by Texaco for turning water into petrol, or cold fusion.

And your evidence of "them" holding back this technology to promote oil-based fuels is......waterwheels! Classic! Now all we need to do is ensure we have a running stream above us, or a portable monsoon, and we can drive anywhere we like with the all new, Hillbill waterwheel engine

Maybe the flying saucer pilots can give us a better suggestion..............

 

[HillBill]

Not my fault you assumed something else is it.

I was saying there were ways in which we wouldn't have to depend on oil and gas... there are. Just not cost effective but thats the problem as it always is... money. I exepct there are plenty of other stuff about too. Tesla's work was destroyed when he died. His stuff could have been used/developed.

Thats not a water wheel either. Its a machine based on the concept of perpetual motion, that doesn't need a river.

 

[rik_uk3]

Growing bio fuel crops in South America has put the price of corned beef up, I demand these crops are banned and the price of corned beef reduced to its old price. Plenty of oil now so we don't need the bio crops.

 

[Andy BB]

Not my fault you assumed something else is it.

I was saying there were ways in which we wouldn't have to depend on oil and gas... there are. Just not cost effective but thats the problem as it always is... money. I exepct there are plenty of other stuff about too. Tesla's work was destroyed when he died. His stuff could have been used/developed.

Thats not a water wheel either. Its a machine based on the concept of perpetual motion, that doesn't need a river.

Ah - perpetual motion. There have been lots of patents for those. And if you're basing your global, evil multinational conspiracy theory around the suppression of those ideas, I have a feeling you may be barking up the wrong tree. Or just barking

As to the rest, biomass production of alcohol as fuel is commonplace already, production-level tests are already underway for bugs-excreting-oil fed on biomass, windmills and hydropower are centuries old and being updated as technology improves, solar-power stations are already in operation, nuclear fusion is just around the corner (as it was 40 years ago!), nuclear fission stations run on one of the most common elements in the world - even seawater contains uranium. There really is no need for sinister conspiracy theories, you know!

 

[DaveBromley]

I too believe that the reserves are running out, all be it more slowly than initially thought, and that we should be looking at other alternatives. At the moment there is a car called the Honda Clarity, that runs solely on a hydrogen fuel cell. Surely we should be throwing EVERYTHING into research on how to separate hydrogen from the very air around us? the only by product produced by this fuel cell is WATER. If we can work out a way to separate the hydrogen from water, and it then produces ........WATER we have achieved the holy of holy's.

There is work at the moment trying to separate the hydrogen from water using a solar furnace but the results are not stable. Once this is cracked though, we will fill up on hydrogen and your car will power your house lol.

Here's a link for those that are interested

Dave

 

[blacktimberwolf]

As always in these energy debates, everything turns around on producing more energy & never suggesting we should try & use less.
'Bio-fuels arn't the answer either, at the current rate the world is using oil & gas, every piece of cultivatable land would have to be reserved for growing the 'energy crops'. We've already allowed industry to pollute every drop of water on this planet, are we now ready to let it compromise our food supplies ?
So lets rape the earth & wring out every last drop of oil & gas to satisfy our lust & greed for energy.....who cares about the future when there are $$$$$'s to be made...." In this life, one thing counts,... in the bank, large amounts"

 

[Corso]

Very interesting, HB. And as patents are publicly available to all to view, I'm looking forward to your evidence of all this cover-up of cheap energy generation!

(oh - and as the Chinese (and others) have been ignoring patent law for centuries, I'm surprised they still need to buy such huge quantities of oil and gas on the open market, seeing as they would have been using all those cheap methods to generate electricity in-house!)

now now dont go ruining a perfectly good conspiracy with logic

 

[mrcharly]

I used to live with most of my housing energy supplied by one single PV panel. Energy use had to be scaled back, but we had artificial lighting (mostly electric), a digital radio, watched DVDs, pressurised water system. Family of 5. Didn't run a freezer, just lived close enough to shops to buy as needed.

It's possible. Just takes thought.

Live in a house now, with a £100 per month electricity bill. Kids never turn off a light, leave computers on all the time. It's depressing.

In the offices where I work, the central heating is turned on year-round. Right through summer the radiators in the stairwells are hot. AC keeps the office cool and nobody ever opens a window. Bloody insane.

 

[HillBill]

Your putting words into your own head there mate. No ones talking about anything like that..... but you.

And if you're basing your global, evil multinational conspiracy theory around the suppression of those ideas, I have a feeling you may be barking up the wrong tree. Or just barking
There really is no need for sinister conspiracy theories, you know!

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I used to live with most of my housing energy supplied by one single PV panel. Energy use had to be scaled back, but we had artificial lighting (mostly electric), a digital radio, watched DVDs, pressurised water system. Family of 5. Didn't run a freezer, just lived close enough to shops to buy as needed.

It's possible. Just takes thought.

Live in a house now, with a £100 per month electricity bill. Kids never turn off a light, leave computers on all the time. It's depressing.

In the offices where I work, the central heating is turned on year-round. Right through summer the radiators in the stairwells are hot. AC keeps the office cool and nobody ever opens a window. Bloody insane.

Insane indeed. You only have to look at the earth from space & see all that light pollution.... how can wasting years of energy (if it was used sensibly) in a single night, every night, be substainable ?
Our consumption of energy does need to be scaled back but how many people are willing to make the effort & changes in their life styles neccessary for it to happen ?
For decades now,the oil, gas & electicity companies have been encouraging us to squander energy & we have grown used to it's abundance.
Similar thing with water,..... waste, waste, waste.................I mean, flushing a toilet or watering a lawn with clean drinking water, how insane is that ?

 

[daveO]

Our consumption of energy does need to be scaled back but how many people are willing to make the effort & changes in their life styles neccessary for it to happen ?

I think about this every weekend. This sunday I washed the car using rainwater and a watering can, mowed the lawn and worked in the garden using a push mower and hand tools, ate breakfast, lunch and dinner outside listening to the birds and didn't use an electric light until after 10pm. My neighbours were almost exclusively indoors all day watching tv with the lights on, using pressure washers to clean the car, petrol or electric mowers to cut their tiny lawns (those who even bother having vegitation in the garden at all), driving to the shop at the end of our road and all manner of wasteful stuff. It's not that people don't care I'm sure but maybe it's more ignorance and maybe a bit of lazyness.

 

[cave_dweller]

As for fracking, same argument basically. Safer technology using different "mud" and not drilling on fault lines, reducs any risk significantly. Some of the more unpleasant techniques are already banned in the EU, and the "eartquakes" some go on about are on the level of a man jumping on the ground (although there have been a couple higher on the R scale caused by careless drilling on tectonic fault lines). Even the worst of those incidents was 3.8 on the R scale......

Apparently anything over a 0.5 on the Richter scale means an immediate stop to the fracking, with a restart requiring ministerial interference. I read that a 0.5 is about the same as a small hand grenade, but that's splitting hairs (especially since it's all but undetectable when it happens thousands of feet underground).

I was interested to read that the carbon capture and storage systems, which grab CO2 from fossil fuel power stations and bury it deep underground also require fracking. The advocates don't seem to make a lot of noise about that...

 

[Tony]

An interesting thread, I hope it stays on track AndyBB, it reads like you're jumping on HillBill a bit, threads need to stay non personal.

I hope that we can get along without fracking, I think it's bad news environmentally, I do hope that in the future we're not reliant on fossil fuels, gas etc and that there's some fantastic ways invented of making more sustainable energy work for us all.

Good post DaveO, where practical it's a great way to live.

 

[HillBill]

The problem with the world today is that it is divided. In order to solve the worlds problems we need to be united. We need one government to manage the whole thing.

Andy, seeing as though you bring conspiracies into it.... if there is a New world order/world government plan in the making... GOOD, lets help to make it happen. Their job as i see it would be efficient resource management. It will happen. I reckon all these middle east wars are steps towards it.

Think about it. If there was a one world government, then we could much more effectively sort out the energy issues. Lots of hot and sunny sparsely populated deserts to use to obtain all the solar energy the world would ever need. Everything then could run on electricity, who needs gas and oil then?

 

[northumbrian]

Growing bio fuel crops in South America has put the price of corned beef up, I demand these crops are banned and the price of corned beef reduced to its old price. Plenty of oil now so we don't need the bio crops.

lol do you not mean corned horse ? lol

 

[Goatboy]

The problem with the world today is that it is divided. In order to solve the worlds problems we need to be united. We need one government to manage the whole thing.

Andy, seeing as though you bring conspiracies into it.... if there is a New world order/world government plan in the making... GOOD, lets help to make it happen. Their job as i see it would be efficient resource management. It will happen. I reckon all these middle east wars are steps towards it.

Think about it. If there was a one world government, then we could much more effectively sort out the energy issues. Lots of hot and sunny sparsely populated deserts to use to obtain all the solar energy the world would ever need. Everything then could run on electricity, who needs gas and oil then?

So we're advocating a forth Reich then. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton. We need stops and checks on any government. It's why you have to allow rogue states - they may be right in the long run; oversimplified I know. Plus it smacks of lazy sci-fi writing. "We approached the pleasure planet." Really a whole planet. Use site specific power solutions to supplement different areas. And encourage lower energy use. It's amazing how you can cope with very little available energy if forethought is used.

 

[HillBill]

4th Reich - NO and quoting someone from the past does not mean anything in the future. Presumption and assumption..... the parents of all feck ups.

We do need an organising body. Every organistation needs a board of directors, no doubt about it... without leadership and law, the place would go to hell. As much as i may dislike government, it is needed.

So we're advocating a forth Reich then. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton. We need stops and checks on any government. It's why you have to allow rogue states - they may be right in the long run; oversimplified I know. Plus it smacks of lazy sci-fi writing. "We approached the pleasure planet." Really a whole planet. Use site specific power solutions to supplement different areas. And encourage lower energy use. It's amazing how you can cope with very little available energy if forethought is used.