New School's on the block so to speak

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max

Guest
Hello

Were do they all come from - I think everyone interested in the topic knows who the main outfits are, and this past twelve months has seen everyman and his dog set up a survival school in some shape or form it's getting frightening to think that newcomers to the subject will struggle to know who the good guys are.

I've done quite a few courses at differant schools and learnt the difference the hard way, some I will go back to tommorow but some were a complete waste of everyones time and money, and now my rule of thumb to which schools I go back to is simple:

Full time instructors with a good balanced history of running courses.

Let's face it, if some guys fitting the phone or washing machine (no disrespect to engineers or plumbers) in my house during the week and there he is at weekend running a survival course i'm on, i'm not sure how serious i'd take him.

1.SEAT have been around for a while - part time and scout base type.

2.Backwoods - brand new but the guy has some history at Breakaway

3.Never heard of it or the guy in it and some of the info scares the life out of me
- i'll not be funding his trips to the states.

The industry must have by now at least 30 outfits in the uk. Some I wouldn't touch with a barge pole but there are one or two very good outfits out there - like anything else in life really.

Oh! This is just my opinion!

Maxmountains
 
P

Paulmac

Guest
Hi all

When did you first come across the Tom Brown related site TK ?

As some people are aware - i've been researching the uk schools and courses over the past 6 months or so and this is the first time i've seen this one. :-?

I have pointed out company website presentation and what they say in the past on this forum so I can also hear what your saying here Max - although you do seem to have quite a tight criterea on the schools you go back to, even I know the number of full time instructors in the UK are low - but I think you've made a good point.

I would add this thought also:

If someone has done a total of 15 weekend courses over a period of 10 years - have they got 10 years experience or 30 days?

Debatable.

Chris - is there a prize for guessing who the 2 instructors are?

Regards

Paul
 
M

max

Guest
Hello guys

There was one guy called Chris on a Woodlore course I did, (2000) was that you?

Some good comments above guys, I like the 30 days - 10 years point Paul,

Very debatable.

Max
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
Depends what else they did ... classes are only part of it.

Paulmac said:
I would add this thought also:

If someone has done a total of 15 weekend courses over a period of 10 years - have they got 10 years experience or 30 days?
 
M

max

Guest
Adi said :Depends what else they did ... classes are only part of it.

.................fitting telephones and washhing machines probably :-D


cheers chris, i definatly got my year right, great courses though, also sounds like you done a lot with ukss, they were great as well.

Enjoy borneo, some people on here have mentioned about that as well.

Maxmountains
 
Stuart,

Gary Wale has NEVER worked for Woodsmoke.

He HAS worked for Woodlore (on some courses, for two seasons) as an assistant to Juha Rankinen and myself, when I worked for Woodlore as an Instructor.

Is Gary aware that you are making these statements on his behalf?

It is refreshing to see that forum members like Max and PaulMac are making prudent enquiries, before parting with their hard earned cash. I would encourage others to follow their example.

Best regards,

Ben McNutt.

www.woodsmoke.uk.com
 
P

Paulmac

Guest
Hi guys

Chris - I've made positive steps towards going on the Borneo Jungle course and spent a day with Ged picking his brains about it before xmas last year, it is now down to getting the time off work so hopefully we'll be on the same trip. I too don't want to hijack this thread so I will PM you about it.

Ben - thanks ever so much for taking the time out to respond to our questions and your comments - speaking to Ged about schools and courses in the UK he was very honest and open with me and never put any one down - he spoke extremely highly about yourself and woodsmoke.


Regards

PaulMac :-D
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,973
37
51
South Wales Valleys
It is refreshing to see that forum members like Max and PaulMac are making prudent enquiries, before parting with their hard earned cash. I would encourage others to follow their example.

Well said ben. Far too many people opt for schools because they are closer or are a cheaper option. Being an unregulated business, as far as bushcraft qualifications go, there are too many out there with access to a piece of land willing to take your cash. Checking out the school and the instructors credentials before you sign up is a must.

Ed
 
M

max

Guest
Ben said:
Stuart,

Is Gary aware that you are making these statements on his behalf?

This may be were Stuart might be reading the signals wrong!

..............................Gary says on the following thred 13th post down.
"I have worked WITH and been associated WITH Woodsmoke......" http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/commun...t=20&sid=86c7f9364b653514680a743113863150


This might be leading to some confusion on Stuarts part.....I can see how because I interpreted it the same :roll: Perhaps Gary may clarify this himself?

As for credentials of schools and instructors there are three mentioned above that are without doubt amongst the best available, Woodsmoke, UK survival school and Woodlore...... once again thats just my opinion.


maxmountains
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
OK firstly let me clarify one thing - when I said I had worked and associated with Woodsmoke I meant woodsmoke as being Ben and Lisa not the company and any misconception here is due to laziness on my part. Stuarts comment was due to the fact he meet me when I visited them and acted as a guest instructor (if thats the correct term) but all my professional dealing with them were while working with Woodlore. And I am sure Ben will agree with me on this - thats about as plain as I can put it.

Ok thats that cleared up.

Now seeing as my own abiliites have been brought into question I will go further as to clarify things here too, although you can see this on my profile if you visit my site.

I have lived and worked in the outdoors all my adult life, I have probably worked and trained in more varied terrians and enviroments than most instructors in this country - I am not someone whose whole experience is a trip to the park and a nights camping in a friends garden nor am I some armchair survivalist who dreams of being Rambo's ugly sister. Although I have installed telephones for a living! In the army I taught field craft (in its many forms) and I taught, participated on and ran E&E courses amongst other things. Upon leaving the forces I attended Woodlores fundamental course around the same time as Ben and Lisa did theirs. I went on to do other woodlore courses before being asked back as an assistant instructor by them. Whilst with woodlore I work with Ben, Juha and Ray and gained invaluable experience from all three - but I also had ideas of my own and these (inparticular the survival aspects) I developed myself and took away with me to form Bearclaw Bushcraft.

As for setting up a company to take your hard earned cash - I agree there are companies like that out there - all that glitters isn't gold. But there are also a lot of companies set up by good people who care deeply about their subject and who wish to try to earn a living doing something they love. 18 years ago people where probably saying "That young Ray Mears fella whose he then? - he'll never make it no experience."

Personally speaking if money was my objective I wouldnt come into the forum and offer free advice or give away courses - maybe I'd sit on the side lines like some cyber Grima worm tongue.

Well hope thats gone some way to clarifying things for you all - and like so many others I too would advise you when looking for courses to shop around until you find what suits you best at the end of the day you are the judge noone else.
 
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M

max

Guest
Ask and you will recieve

There we go - clarification

I wouldn't say anybody above was questioning your credentials - the heat rose over misinterpretation of words, but it's good out in the open because for the number of people who comment, you can times that by those that don't comment and now they know.

Yikes :shock: The fitting the telephones part...............what are the chances of that happening harry ? now who was it who used that analogy, perhaps we could edit it to a window cleanor or van driver or any thing ?

I would also think that the instructors who don't contribute to this site may have good reasons, like I don't see how some of the flat out full timers with packed out programmes would find the time with families,etc. it may just be that forums are not their cup of tea, because a lot of names on here post elsewhere, that's alot of computer time. Personally I can't belive how much time I've spent on here myself this week (first week) - so much I 've failed to prepare my route cards for this weekends hike and bivi :shock:

Love you all :-D

Maxmountains
 
M

max

Guest
Hello Chris - nice one

Sounds like a Fair deal, will go to PM on this

Maxmountains
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
Ben said:
Stuart,

Gary Wale has NEVER worked for Woodsmoke.

He HAS worked for Woodlore (on some courses, for two seasons) as an assistant to Juha Rankinen and myself, when I worked for Woodlore as an Instructor.

Is Gary aware that you are making these statements on his behalf?

It is refreshing to see that forum members like Max and PaulMac are making prudent enquiries, before parting with their hard earned cash. I would encourage others to follow their example.

Best regards,

Ben McNutt.

www.woodsmoke.uk.com

My apologies Ben/Lisa

I had (mistakenly) thought that as Gary was one of the instructors on my woodlander course with woodsmoke that he worked for yourselves, you have now informed me that he was a in fact a 'guest' instructor on my course and not full time.

Gary was not aware that I had made this statement and again I apoligise for any confusion that I may have caused
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
Personally speaking, if I was looking to attend a course, I'd be looking to find someone I felt I could learn from. Apart from having the knowledge and skills, it'd also be important for them to be patient, supportive, nuturing and unassuming.

I'm paying, and if I simply didn't like the bloke, why on earth would I want to suffer a week in his company, at my expense?

I think that's partly why I like this forum so much. It gives me chance to communicate with people and have some insight beforehand. People who share their knowledge freely have always impressed me. I would like to take the opportunity to thank Gary - and all the knowledgeable people on this site, for sharing what they know, what they've learned from years of experience, without asking for a single thing in return. When it comes to choosing a course, all things being pretty much equal, I'll be picking from one of you lot.

The same ethic runs true on British Blades. It'd be understandable for knifemakers to keep their manufacturing secrets to themselves would it not? But the ethic is to share knowledge freely - and they all do. The community grows, the knowledge base grows, and the industry prospers as a result. People still buy thier knives, sharing their methods doesnt detract from that (quite the contrary), in fact they often buy knives from each other. Working towards a community, has a positive impact for the individual as well as the community as a whole.

The participants on this forum seem to have this insight, it's a good thing. Thanks all. :)
 

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