New Bushcraft/Firearms Poll

[British Red]

Its a shame that mrostov - they are very common here - you can pick up a nice English side by side hammer gun with Damascus barrels for £500 if you keep your eyes open - it'll be a non ejector and chambered for 2 1/2" cartridges - but they are out there - I do like a nice side by side - they just feel great. I accept that an over / under is better to shoot competitively, but its not about competition for me. My neighbour - in his 80s - trots out his 16b this time of year to shoot a few walked up pheasants on his sons farm. That's a pretty good thing to see.

 

[mrostov]

English made side by sides are nice, no doubt. Something like that I would handload all brass shells for it. There are a couple of brands available, but MagTech (made in Brazil) is the one that is affordable, and IIRC, those are 2-1/2".

I've been toying with the idea of getting a side by side, which here pretty much means Stoeger (made in Brazil) or something like a Yildiz (made in Turkey). What I'm looking at is a 12ga 'Coach Gun', which is a double barrel with 20" barrels. The minimum legal length here is 18" barrels with a 26" minimum overall length. I'm thinking of something that I can put into a scabbard and keep with me in the jeep when I wander about. Something I can take either a duck, a pheasant, a rabbit, a deer, or a feral hog with.

Stoeger makes several configurations of 12ga coach gun, including an all black version that is ported with tactical rails. What I've been eyeing is a more traditional looking one with removable chokes and double triggers. I can get drop in adapters and quickly turn it into a double barrel .410, or a double barrel rifle in say, .357mag or .22LR. These are very common with the bushcraft crowd and their single barrel H&R's.

Here is their website: http://www.stoegerindustries.com/

There are sub-gauge adapters you can use that convert you to a smaller shotgun gauge but they will eject/extract like it's the native gauge for that weapon. For example, you can keep a pair in an old 16ga double barrel and then use it as a regular 20ga.

 

[mrostov]

This thread was originally about bushcraft and firearms which I believe goes hand in hand.

Shotguns are the ultimate bushcraft firearm. When the English colonists first landed here they had European fowler type weapons and blunderbuss style shotguns.

When the mountain men headed out into the West, they had a muzzleloading rifle in a scabbard, but more often than not what rode across their saddle horn was a double barrel shotgun.

Early in the frontier, the Indian trade muskets had bores similar to a 20ga to 12ga shotgun, and the Indians upgraded to them as fast as possible. They used them as a shotgun as often as they used them as a musket, with their 'shot' typically being smooth river gravel.

After the US Civil War, most of the settlers that headed West were poor, and a typical gun they had, their only gun, was a war surplus, muzzleloading, smoothbore caplock musket, typically about .54 to 58 caliber, with the barrel cut down. These guns were obsolete even before the war started and were bought by the North en-mass as a stop gap arsenal from every warehouse in Europe. These were used as a shotgun (about 28ga) more often than not.

Bushcrafting is about living in nature, and that means eating. Eating often means hunting. Aboriginal men around the world have always called themselves 'great hunter' with pride and accomplishment, and for good reason.

There is a video everyone should watch and it's Morgan Spurlock's "I, Caveman".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fS6aNQWbPQ

You see how badly they suffered, what they did or almost did right, and then figure out how that could be vastly improved. A single shotgun, metal tools, and a bit of know how would have made all of the difference.

 

[British Red]

A great post mrostov - thank you. The firearm was indeed integral to exploration and bushcraft in all its original forms - from the airguns carried by those opening the North of the American continent to the fur trappers muzzle loader.

I am hugely tempted by a hammer action shotgun and rolling my own paper black powder cartridges - to hunt with not to play with - it would give me a feel of connection. A muzzle loading shotgun would be even better - but perhaps a step too far

 

[santaman2000]

Don't be shy BR; get it! over 20 years ago I got my first cap & ball revolver, and over 10 years ago I got a Hawken. I'm still wanting that double barreled muzzle loading shotgun as soon as funds allow.

 

[British Red]

mmm one of the dealers I know has a few in right now - tempted to start off with this one

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Dumoulin_Shotgun_For-Sale_101216171256008


although this is the type I really want

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Richards-W_Shotgun_For-Sale_101216171253003

 

[santaman2000]

Both look good. The price on that first one isn't bad either.

 

[British Red]

He's got a Midland Hammer gun for £250 which is plain but a nice hammer gun

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Midland-Gun-Company_Shotgun_For-Sale_121123135225002

It seems those old guns are cheaper here than there - but here, every farmer had one!

 

[Midnitehound]

You can still possess handguns in the UK, simply they no longer accepts 'sporting use' as a 'good reason to possess'. I used to have a Browning I used as a 'humane dispatcher' for farm animals and trapped foxes. Bizarrely, the police insisted that one of the two magazines was limited to two shots, but were happy for the other to be unrestricted.

I gather they are now moving to crack down on semi-autos with two round capacity mags. for humane dispatch. It will be two shot revolvers only.

 

[santaman2000]

He's got a Midland Hammer gun for £250 which is plain but a nice hammer gun

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/Midland-Gun-Company_Shotgun_For-Sale_121123135225002

It seems those old guns are cheaper here than there - but here, every farmer had one!

Much cheaper apparently, the reproductions are going for those prices here. I suspect they were common here as well in the pre-cartridge era. But not many have survived, the real ones from the era command high collector's prices that make them too valuable to shoot.

 

[British Red]

Its a plain Jane nitro proof. If its 2 3/4 chamber I may just get it for giggles and some walked up pheasant. No huge age to it - late 1800s / early 1900s?

 

[spandit]

I've just bought an English 12 bore. The company (E.M. Reilly) stopped making guns in 1920 so it's got some age. Going clay pigeon shooting today (if I ever get back to sleep) - it's a lovely side by side, 30" barrels

 

[British Red]

I think we'll need some pictures there Spandit

Here's my plain old SBS


AYA No.3 12 bore SBS by British Red, on Flickr

and my little hammer action folding 410 which is about a perfect Bushcraft gun I think


Belgian Folding .410 by British Red, on Flickr

 

[spandit]

(rug came with the house...)

A close up of some of the engraving:

Even the screws hidden under the forearm are engraved. Stock needs some work but it fits me and goes "bang" when it needs to. The moles this morning didn't enjoy the experience

 

[British Red]

Nice - stock has been lengthened as you say - but so what? What were you shooting moles with? We reckon BB is about favourite

 

[British Red]

Should be entitled "can we go shooting now master?"

 

[spandit]

Nice - stock has been lengthened as you say - but so what? What were you shooting moles with? We reckon BB is about favourite

Just #6 pigeon shot - that's all I've got.

Dogs are not trained or remotely steady. The black one, Muddy, seems to be quite good at catching rabbits, though

 

[British Red]

No excuse not getting them to flush and retrieve now you have that beauty to shoot with! Loving the looks of Muddy

 

[EddieP]

I know what you guys mean about snobbery. I went on a posh pheasant shoot one, not realising how posh it was. I used a over / under. I did joke that I should have brought my 10round pump. They all said... what a bit of fun that'd have been. They are easy to proove safe with a chamber flag.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[spandit]

No excuse not getting them to flush and retrieve now you have that beauty to shoot with! Loving the looks of Muddy

Make me an offer...

She's a rescue dog. Lovely temperament but a real escapologist and so stubborn! Goes absolutely nuts for a laser pointer (which the other one can't see, I think)