New bow saw at Woodlore

[Rod]

I wasn't aware anyone was digging about Ray's - I certainly wasn't. I was merely showing an alternative that does the same job for a fraction of the cost. If any of the parts got lost/broken/damaged they could be replaced at a fraction of the cost.

I have no problem if people want to pay out £85 on one, but It seems a lot of money for what it is, that's all

Rant off

 

[mikesknives]

Heres the crux Ray has a very high profit margin some premium firms can do this because of thier profile but as someone said earlier tax insurance business costs blah blah blah he has those of course but so do the other retailers who sell the same goods i.e the Laplander folding saw for £14 instead of £25. We know he's r**ping us off so lets go and spend some time reseaching the alternatives and get a better deal!

Heres a good example :

One green laplander saw £25

or

One orange bahco saw(same thing) with a free blade £13

so to sum up one saw for £25 or two orange saws with a total of 4 blades £26 which do you prefer.

You pays your money and you can say you got it from Ray (He's a personal friend dontcha know!!)

 

[Shinken]

Ok folks, lets just all take a deep breath here and refrain from the ad hominem attacks, either on Ray Mears or each other. If you can't keep a civil tongue, you don't belong here

I agree, i think we shouldnt try and remove the speck of sawdust in Rays eye. First we should remove the planks in our own eyes.

First learn and practice as much as Ray has, then give constuctive advice to him based on your differing experience. Then leave it up to him if he takes on board that advice. It's his life let him choose how he wants to live it and what he want to sell you dont have to buy it.

Rant over

 

[Wayland]

snip... We know he's r**ping us off ......snip

He's not ripping us off though is he........ We are unlikely to buy one at that price.

The people he's ripping off are the idiots that buy a book and think it makes them "bushcrafters".

Personally I say good luck to him, I wouldn't like to think what the bush-neds round here would do with a saw. It's bad enough what they manage with an axe. ..

I have a saying, and I suspect it applies to a lot of other small business people too......."I don't suffer fools cheaply."

As to someone saying, "Why doesn't he use this site?".... .. Wake up and smell the coffee.....he probably does come here, but if people continually take the P!$$ out of him it's no great surprise that he doesn't use "Ray Mears" as a user name is it.

 

[nigelp]

PM Maynman if you want a saw as good as the woodlore one and at half the price! I was well chuffed with the quality of mine but am also aware of the time and effort it took to make. Suspect all Woodlore products have a premium price tag but it is still everyones choice whether to purchase or not. I would prefer a nice ash saw than a nasty orange thing and am prepared to pay £45 for one, but not £85!
Good luck to Ray, when he started out he probably did not realise how popular all this was going to be and could have as easily have not made a living from it. Like him or not, jealous Ray bashing won't make a jot of difference to him and only down grades the debate to name calling?

 

[demographic]

<Scott dons his Nomex undercrackers>

Yet again, another thread where people whinge about the prices of "bushcraft" items.
As long as people are willing to pay those prices it will continue, if they are vastly overpriced you will be able to get someone else to make it cheaper (be aware that the retired amature hobbyist making things for only the materials cost isn't a true reflection of market values as anyone that has to feed their kids has to make some kind of profit) and that the first seller may well go out of business.

Look at it, if you can't be arsed to knock one up thats perfectly servicable then you deserve to pay the money.

I am sure that I could knock one of those saws with ease, but if someone else wanted one they would have to pay the going rate that I usually charge as a self employed carpenter, otherwise I could just work extra time at the place I usually work and not have to waste time standing in line at the post office sending parcels out to individual customers.

End of story, get over it

I am fairly sure I have the plans for one kicking around in my computer (A kind member from here e-mailed them to me a while ago) somewhere so if someone wants a copy I can e-mail the PDF file to them as its quite good.

 

[OldJimbo]

I believe that this has been a good thread in that it's shown options, from very cheap to expensive. And people have a choice.

This is just the Rolex vs Plastic junk watch thread.

I'd be the proponent of the cheap and mass produced aluminum frames. They certainly fit my criteria for fast setup, weight, rigidity and robustness. I'd think it to be a little harder to buy or make a wood take-down frame which would equal the aluminum in all criteria. Being able to make a frame could be an essential skill, though.
I was rather shocked after buying an old setting tool for saw teeth, to find that none of my saw blades had consistent set. That shock was nothing compared to the surprise I had after my first attempts at setting and sharpening.
Like everyone else, I learn as I go, and it's been very interesting to learn and experiment with saw blades. It's also been a humbling experience when I look back over the wasted effort of so many decades with improperly set up blades! At least I had good exercise.
Tools for setting up saw blades are cheap on ebay, since very few people sharpen saws any more. I'd be the first to admit, though, that the hours of learning add up and that my junk saws might be considered as expensive if hours of learning sharpening are figured in. It could even be argued that they have more hours of hand work into them, than more expensive "hand-crafted" items.
Where I'm going with all of this is that a person can get 100% improvement in efficiency with a properly set up blade. That's the start if a person only cuts seasoned wood, since most bow saw blades are set up for green wood. So no matter what you decide on, for frame, consider the blade, too.

 

[boland magyar]

wayland is spot on
would any one of us spend our hard earned money on rays stuff.
my family are 4 generations of carpenters and would not buy a bow saw for £85 but then there are people who are easly mislead into thinking that if its rays stuff then it must be the dogs bxxxxxks.
im new to bushcraft (or maybe i have been doing this for years?) i think that ray has made bushcraft part of the norm and not some geeky way of life and i think we all appreciate rays work in the media
when any one of us asks a land owner to use there woods for bushcraft then becouse of ray the landowner knows what type of people we are.
a big THANKS to ray
boland
p.s. any one who buys a bow saw for £85 needs to ask a good carpenter what he would pay.

 

[mikesknives]

He's not ripping us off though is he........ We are unlikely to buy one at that price.

The people he's ripping off are the idiots that buy a book and think it makes them "bushcrafters".

Personally I say good luck to him, I wouldn't like to think what the bush-neds round here would do with a saw. It's bad enough what they manage with an axe. ..

I have a saying, and I suspect it applies to a lot of other small business people too......."I don't suffer fools cheaply."

As to someone saying, "Why doesn't he use this site?".... .. Wake up and smell the coffee.....he probably does come here, but if people continually take the P!$$ out of him it's no great surprise that he doesn't use "Ray Mears" as a user name is it.

That was the point I was actually trying to make. Wether you get ripped is down to you and wether your willing to do any research on what your buying.

I'm not particularly a Ray basher I think he's been a godsend and you only have to look at the increase in bushcraft schools to see his effect he has probably created a whole whack of extra job opportunities for people but I just get wound up at blatent prophitering where ever it occurs!

 

[Shinken]

I just get wound up at blatent prophitering where ever it occurs!

Look at car mechanics 70 pounds an hour just for labour!

 

[falling rain]

Bushcraft has taught me a great deal of patience and learning new skills and making things has brought a lot of joy to me. I personally believe anyone could make such a saw if they really put their mind to it and took their time. That being the key phrase here 'Take your time' stop for a rest every so often and look at the progress of your work (same thing for spoons, cordage or anything else) anyone can do it even if you have no woodworking skills it's all about thinking the whole thing through, choosing your wood carefully, don't try and rush it to get it done in one go. Take a step back every so often and look at what you've done and then plan the next step carefully. If you do this anyone can make a nice looking saw, you also need the will and the patience. Of course you will need certain tools or borrow some, or have the timber merchant cut the wood to your requirements. Alternatively in true bushcraft spirit you could make one from what you can find in the woods on the spot. (not the blade of course unless you've got some amazing skills ) A tension bucksaw 'a la' Mors Kochanski in his book bushcraft will take about 20 minutes to half an hour to cut the wood and put together. Mors does show his with nails in the illustration in his book, but nails arn't necessary and the tension alone will hold the cross support beams in place if made properly.

Oh and can we leave RM alone please ........it gets a bit tiresome after a while. If you were him and could get away with it you would...... Fair play to the guy.

 

[OldJimbo]

Oh and can we leave RM alone please

Yep. I figure everyone including me has had a chance to show their amazement at expensive saws.
That sure won't leave a void for those of us who like to argue and debate, because the question then comes up of just what makes a fantastic saw.
I'm rather amazed at the options which we do have with saws. As I've said I'm a great fan of the folding aluminum saws. I have trouble believing the amount of wood I've cut with the 10oz Sawvivor - and that it's still going with the original blade after years, since the blade is thin. For sure I had to get used to the idea of needing gloves with it in winter, but other than that I have only praise.
If a person doesn't like aluminum, then the possibilities with wood frames are endless in terms of wood used and ornateness. Maybe we're stuck with a couple of basic designs, but that's because they've worked for generations. Really worked!
Maybe blades aren't as well sharpened at the factory as they were many decades ago, but they are well heat treated and so even cheap blades can be fixed up. I baulked at the price of Trailblazer blades for the Sawvivor and Trailblazer saws, as they are three times the price of the hardware store variety and still of the same sharpness, but the fact is that a 1mm kerf sure involves a lot less work and can be much faster cutting than a 1.5mm.
I tend to go for bigger wood than the Laplander will handle easily, but I still carry it lots simply because it really is fun to use for small woodworking. And it and a Mora will get a person by, even here in winter.

 

[C_Claycomb]

my family are 4 generations of carpenters and would not buy a bow saw for £85 but then there are people who are easly mislead into thinking that if its rays stuff then it must be the dogs bxxxxxks.

Boland, how long do you think it would take you to make a saw like that? Five holes, two slots, two mortice and tenon joints, all corners rounded, sanded and oil finished? Would you use power tools, if so which ones, and how much time would it shave compared to doing it all by hand? What would you pay and, if you were buying, where would you go to find something like that?

As for people being mislead into thinking that the stuff Ray sells is really good...hmmm...it may not be the best value for money, but it is all good kit. I don't see anything misleading about it.

As in most things, you can either spend time, or you can spend money. When someone new to "Bushcraft" buys kit from Woodlore they are saving time by spending money. They are not merely buying kit, they are buying peace of mind knowing that what they are getting will be fit for purpose. Certainly, they could sit down on the Net for some hours, maybe come on here and spend a couple of weeks researching things, then make a better informed choice; but, some people don't have time or ability to do such research.

 

[demographic]

Look at car mechanics 70 pounds an hour just for labour!

Dunno bout round your area but the actual mechanic never sees that kind of money up here, it all gets swallowed up by gaffas and overheads, insurance and public liability insurance.

The mechanic is very lucky indeed if he sees a tenner an hour up here.

 

[boland magyar]

hi les
this thread has had 53 replies
1145 views
and no one has answered your question (no one has bought a bow saw)
nuff said
boland

 

[OldJimbo]

That's true Boland, but we're just waiting for you to get one first and tell us what they're like.... People have written about what they do have, though, and that's important for comparison when person is deciding what to buy.

 

[British Red]

I may try to make some of those buck saws. How would you like one made of teak wood?

Yes pretty pretty please ?

 

[Hoodoo]

I just got mine from Northwest Woodsman. Very nice saw. Locks up solid, no wobble. Nice simple design and folds away nicely. Super fast service too. I talked to the guy on the phone. Good guy to talk to.

 

[Rod]

Fools and their money are easily parted.

selah

 

[Angus Og]

I don't see what the problem is, you don't want it don't buy it. If it lasts you a life time of use is it such a bad thing and no I didn't buy one.

It's called freedom of choice you want to buy it at that price that's up to you it's your money. I've spent more than that on booze in a night out and had nothing to show for it but killer hangover.