Hello folks - Beginner bow drilling

[CPH]

In the video it appears the string might not be tight enough around the spindle, so that near the end it looked like the bow was moving, but the spindle wasn't. Meaning that you were dragging the cord around the spindle....lots of friction and heat into the string. The bow might also be a bit short which means your strokes tend to be shorter, more direction changes, which tends to be where one gets cord slipping.

Youtube allows you to play your video back at 1/4 speed. It might be something to do with the sampling rate and the speed of the spindle, but it does look like it stands still at times.

Hi and thank you. It most definitely does slip. I am not sure if that’s because the cord has already begun to deteriorate though?
It is always at the very end of the drilling. The whole thing appears to start binding. I can’t make any difference by adding tension to the bow with my hand either. I’ve tried various boards and spindles now, but the result is the same every time.
I know my action becomes wobbly at the end of the drilling, but that’s because the spindle begins to bind.
Today I couldn’t get an ember at all. I also noticed that the dust I created with the drill was brown rather than black. I’m assuming that might mean the board is too punky and consequentially too soft?

 

[CPH]

In addition to what Chris has said, your bow is not bow shaped. You will find it easier if there is good separation between your bow and the drill at the centre. To achieve that you need a bow stick that is slightly curved (like a strung bow!). That will do two things a) stop the string rubbing on the bow, and b) allow springy tension on the string.

Thank you. I have read and watched an awful lot of articles and videos and there seems to be a fifty fifty split regarding whether the bow should be straight or curved. The bow I used when first getting success is curved, but I chose the one in the video because it had a slight curve at one end. I used that as the end I hold. It worked well enough yesterday until the string broke.

 

[CPH]

Sorry, I disagree with this. I find a straight stick much superior to a bent one for this.

Thanks. I guess both will work to some extent?

 

[Stew]

Thanks. I guess both will work to some extent?

I guess it's one of those things where it just varies from person to person as to what works best for them.

 

[Pattree]

Now I know nothing at all about fire bows but I know a little about knots and cord.
Do you need two hitches on your spindle. I can see how it might help grip but there will be a lot of friction between the two loops. Could this be causing your cord failure?

I’m very happy to be wrong.

pee ess,
Going by the smoke just off shot you were doing fine and your tinder let you down.

 

[CPH]

Now I know nothing at all about fire bows but I know a little about knots and cord.
Do you need two hitches on your spindle. I can see how it might help grip but there will be a lot of friction between the two loops. Could this be causing your cord failure?

I’m very happy to be wrong.

Thanks, but if you mean twice around the spindle or drill? It isn’t. It’s only twisted around the drill the one time, although I have seen a couple of videos where the individual does take two turns around the drill.

 

[Broch]

Sorry, I disagree with this. I find a straight stick much superior to a bent one for this.

Really? Oh well, to each their own. I have never managed to get natural cordage to survive rubbing against the bow. To be clear, I'm not talking about a 'strained' stick as in a true bow; I still apply the tension by squeezing the string against the bow.

What's good enough for John Fenna and Paul Kirtley, is good enough for me

 

[Stew]

Really? Oh well, to each their own. I have never managed to get natural cordage to survive rubbing against the bow. To be clear, I'm not talking about a 'strained' stick as in a true bow; I still apply the tension by squeezing the string against the bow.

What's good enough for John Fenna and Paul Kirtley, is good enough for me

To be fair, I'm not saying for natural cordage - that might make a difference but I can't comment on it.

 

[John Fenna]

Really? Oh well, to each their own. I have never managed to get natural cordage to survive rubbing against the bow. To be clear, I'm not talking about a 'strained' stick as in a true bow; I still apply the tension by squeezing the string against the bow.

What's good enough for John Fenna and Paul Kirtley, is good enough for me

I am no expert! - just a fair bit of experience What works for me and my students need not be the only way!
I see lots of differing methods work OK for other folks: Asian bow drill exponents seem to use a slacker cord and straighter bows ... but this has never worked well for me....

 

[CPH]

If your string is slipping just grasp the string and the bow at the butt end and keep the tension going........we used blue polypropylene rope, cheap as chips, and we demonstrated making fire successfully at least ten times a day.

It's technique, practice, and an awareness of the situation that makes it work.

Where's the wind coming from....it'll chill your coal right down before you have enough to keep the heat generating into an ember if you get it wrong.

Do you have your tinder nest ready ?

Have you got something warm enough under the hearth board so that again you don't lose the heat ? bark's fine, and if you don't have to disturb your coal but can just curl that bark around the coal and your tinder to blow....brilliant

Paracord's fine, it works, it lasts fairly well, better than blue polypropylene !, but sometimes you need to grasp the cord as well as the bow to keep the tension and the spindle birling.

Best of luck with it It's one of the most satisfying things to master, it really is

cheers,
Toddy

Sorry, I’ve only just noticed your reply in coming back to this thread to update. Thank you for the tips.
I actually headed here to say I’ve hah probably ten goes at it and only managed to raise an ember once, and that got stuck in the actual indentation in the hearth board. I think because I hadn’t made my notch wide enough.
I am completely confident on most parts of the process. What is preventing me making an ember on virtually every occasion is that the bow string breaks. It breaks every single time. It doesn’t matter what string I use. I’ve tried at least half a dozen kinds, including paracord. Nothing will last more than three attempts. I get heaps of soot every time but when I rev up the bow the cord snaps. Frankly it’s beginning to drive me nuts!
If anybody is looking in and could offer reasons why the cord or string breaks every time I would be very grateful?
Edit: Just to add, I have made oak and mahogany top bearings. I ca’t use a limpet shell because I’m a long way from the coast, but I did try a cockle shell I found in the garden, which burned through. I have tried putting a drop of oil and WD40 in the bearing’s indent, but it is the only issue I can see that might be causing the cords to break.

 

[Broch]

Have you tried the pull-cord? I'd be very surprized if that broke!

https://amzn.eu/d/3jKQrsS

 

[Pattree]

Are they breaking at the same point?

 

[C_Claycomb]

Try twisting the drill into the string the other way around. If you have been consistently doing it the way you show in your video, you are causing the cord to rub against itself as it goes round the drill. Your bow stroke has your bow hand higher than the far end of the bow, but the cord comes off the bottom of the wrap nearest the bow hand.

It is important that the cord wrap stays close, not spiralling, since the spiral will tend to throw the drill, but this should be achieved with a bow stroke parallel to the ground.

 

[Stew]

Try twisting the drill into the string the other way around. If you have been consistently doing it the way you show in your video, you are causing the cord to rub against itself as it goes round the drill. Your bow stroke has your bow hand higher than the far end of the bow, but the cord comes off the bottom of the wrap nearest the bow hand.

It is important that the cord wrap stays close, not spiralling, since the spiral will tend to throw the drill, but this should be achieved with a bow stroke parallel to the ground.

Well spotted!

You're definitely rubbing string on string so it's making the actual bowing harder for you as well as the breakage.

 

[CPH]

Have you tried the pull-cord? I'd be very surprized if that broke!

https://amzn.eu/d/3jKQrsS

Hi, no not yet, but I will order some and give it a try. The thing is though, everybody recommends paracord. It’s pretty tough stuff but after a couple of goes the outer coating splits in the middle of the bow cord. I then remove the outer coating and have another go with the white inner cord, which breaks before I get an ember. I feel that the type of cord isn’t really the issue, because, as I said, paracord is given a widespread thumbs up by most people.
Thanks for the reply though.

 

[CPH]

Are they breaking at the same point?

I’m not really sure tbh. But thanks for responding.

 

[CPH]

Try twisting the drill into the string the other way around. If you have been consistently doing it the way you show in your video, you are causing the cord to rub against itself as it goes round the drill. Your bow stroke has your bow hand higher than the far end of the bow, but the cord comes off the bottom of the wrap nearest the bow hand.

It is important that the cord wrap stays close, not spiralling, since the spiral will tend to throw the drill, but this should be achieved with a bow stroke parallel to the ground.

This is what I suspected. I know that I can use plastic strapping, which you couldn’t possibly break by hand, to cut itself just by using another piece of the same stuff like a toggle saw.
I’ve got to be honest and admit that despite thinking this I can’t really grasp how it’s happening, but I will rewatch my video and try and understand what you have said. Thank you for taking the time to have a look and explain. Hopefully I can work on that part of my technique and get the hang of it.
… I ain’t giving in!

 

[CPH]

Well spotted!

You're definitely rubbing string on string so it's making the actual bowing harder for you as well as the breakage.

Thank you. Hopefully it’s the final piece of the jigsaw.

 

[Broch]

Hi, no not yet, but I will order some and give it a try. The thing is though, everybody recommends paracord. It’s pretty tough stuff but after a couple of goes the outer coating splits in the middle of the bow cord. I then remove the outer coating and have another go with the white inner cord, which breaks before I get an ember. I feel that the type of cord isn’t really the issue, because, as I said, paracord is given a widespread thumbs up by most people.
Thanks for the reply though.

Well, not everybody is right

To be fair, there's paracord and paracord. The cheap stuff is very slippery and nowhere near as strong.

Start with the best tools you can lay your hands on and, when you are confident, move on to experimenting.

I'd include you drill in that - it appears in your video to be far from true round and have a knot bulge in it - all these things make it more difficult when you're starting off.

 

[CPH]

Well, not everybody is right
To be fair, there's paracord and paracord. The cheap stuff is very slippery and nowhere near as strong.

Funnily enough I was wondering about that. I remember as a kid a fellow made us kids a swing with genuine parachute cord. It was no more than perhaps 8mm thick from memory and we would sometimes have two kids at a time swinging in it. There is no way the stuff I have would be up to that.