Need advice on waterproof jackets

[Clouston98]

I have a bivvy made from eVent, it is a good fabric, however In my experience there is no such thing as a 100% waterproof jacket that Is also 100% breathable - especially during hard work such as splitting wood. Your best deciding where you'd like to compromise- with ventile, polycotton etc you sacrifice the high water proof ness of the jacket, with GoreTex, event etc you sacrifice breathability.

Hope this helps!

 

[KojakPeg]

Hi Uilleachen
I used to climb Munros. These days it's more walking, but I can be out for long periods so need something that can stand up to prolonged rain. Nothing as bad as you get on the west coast but I can still end up soaked through. Reading the blurb on ventile it sounded like a good alternative to goretex, but now I've talked to you guys I don't think it's designed for what I need. So I think I'll cross it off the list too.

Many thanks

Hi Woodsman
I wasn't sure and had hear people talking about west wind

Cheers

Hi rg598
Thanks for the advice. I'd never heard of the ones on the list and wanted to talk to people who know more about them, before went any further. And I'm glad I did now, because I may have forked out for a jacket that I'm beginning to realising isn't really designed for what I need. So I am now looking at the Keela Munro.

Many thanks

Hi Clousten
I do get hot but it's waterproofing I'm looking for over breathability. So I've crossed everything off the short list and I think I'll look into something like Keela or a Gore-Tex

Many thanks

 

[Uilleachan]

Oilskin are 100% water proof but for physical exertion you sweat, less of an issue in winter as the layers absorb the moisture, but once accustomed to oilskins their easy to get on with, and they don't beak the bank.

I'll need to dig some photos out from the 80's I've a fair few munro summit shots of me clad in the cheapest of the cheap (happy farmers, £3 a set at the time ) oilskin jackets. Often I wore them as a cape, if the wind was blowing at my back, or over the windward shoulder, they stay put like that in all but the windiest of weather and worn like that these so much ventilation that condensation never becomes an issue.

I've said it before on here; if I could only have one jacket it would be a heavy duty weight oilskin.

 

[Uilleachan]

Hi Uilleachen
I used to climb Munros. These days it's more walking, but I can be out for long periods so need something that can stand up to prolonged rain. Nothing as bad as you get on the west coast but I can still end up soaked through. Reading the blurb on ventile it sounded like a good alternative to goretex, but now I've talked to you guys I don't think it's designed for what I need. So I think I'll cross it off the list too.

Many thanks

Hi Woodsman
I wasn't sure and had hear people talking about west wind

Cheers

Hi Settler
Thanks for the advice. I'd never heard of the ones on the list and wanted to talk to people who know more about them, before went any further. And I'm glad I did now, because I may have forked out for a jacket that I'm beginning to realising isn't really designed for what I need. So I am now looking at the Keela Munro.

Many thanks

Hi Clousten
I do get hot but it's waterproofing I'm looking for over breathability. So I've crossed everything off the short list and I think I'll look into something like Keela or a Gore-Tex

Many thanks

I've a keala munro, and it's a great jacket although I use it for work, as I sometimes find myself having to hang around outside in all weathers and sometimes in chilly parts of the world, it would work really well on the hill and all the local mountain rescue guys use them and swear by them, but they're short jackets (although they do have an inner waist snow/wind gaiter) and are best used in combination with a set of salopettes, rather than trousers.

Just to add, despite ventile getting wet, I've never been wet through the 2nd layer even after being out all day in sometimes savage rain, goretex is good to mind.

 

[Andy BB]

Remember that Goretex (and presumably similar stuff) doesn't breathe at all when the temp drops much below zero!

As for keeping dry in heavy rain, why not consider a poncho for those times( lightweight, easy to pack and put on even over a rucksack), and rely on a lighter, water-resistant jacket for when its not raining heavily?

 

[baggins]

Hi guys, i'm another one with a foot in both camps, i use a Berghaus Mera Peak for warmer days in the mountains, where weight is a bigger consideration. For cooler weather i have a Country Innovation Rover and i love it. yes, it is bulky and warm (hence why i don't wear it in the summer), but the fit is great, the hood works well and it keeps me very with the right layering underneath (Aclima wool stuff).
I do have a west winds single layer cairngorm as well (relegated to work now), a pretty good jacket but i hate those so called waterproof zips with no storm flags, always end up with a damp line down my chest.
just my tuppence worth.

 

[Shewie]

Remember that Goretex (and presumably similar stuff) doesn't breathe at all when the temp drops much below zero!

That would be zero Fahrenheit though? I know eVent performs much better than Goretex in extreme colds but not sure what range

 

[Winnet]

I stay in Aberdeen and find that my Montane Extreme smock works well for up here. It has been soaked a fair few times in all seasons but hasn't failed me.

G.

 

[rg598]

That would be zero Fahrenheit though? I know eVent performs much better than Goretex in extreme colds but not sure what range

Yeah, we are talking about extreme cold here. The main reason is that the water freezes before it has a chance to get past the membrane. In such temperatures brethability is overrated in my opinion. Vapor from the body condenses and freezes within the insulation long before it reaches the shell layer or has a chance to pass through it.

I think Clouston98 put it best: there is no jacket that is 100% waterproof while at the same time being 100% breathable. You will have to compromise somewhere depending on what matters to you more. GoreTex, eVent, Neoshell, etc are waterproof but are only somewhat breathable. Ventile, canvas, EPIC, Pertex Quantum, etc are only water resistant, not waterproof, but breathe better. None of them breathe very well when wet.

To that I would like to add the additional considerations of weight, volume, durability, and drying time. All of those things have to be balanced depending on the trip and the type of considerations which are important at the particular time.

For the type of trip described by the OP, I would go with a lightweight GoreTex (or similar) jacket. It is easy to pack when not in use, lightweight, fairly durable, and fully waterproof.

 

[Shewie]

My experience of Epic hasn't been too good Ross, give me Paclite or eVent any day over Epic. But Pertex, that's a different gravy altogether, I can work hard all day in my Montane wind shirt and be perfectly dry underneath, amazing stuff.

 

[rg598]

I've dealt with Epic when it comes to tents. I find that it will hold off a few hours of rain, but after that it saturates and starts to leak at contact points much like canvas. I have no idea how breathable it is as a coat, but they say it is more breathable than hardshell materials.

 

[brambles]

Another vote for the Keela Munro here - I have 2 of them, and the older one is definitely a shorter cut in the body than the new one ( bought in October last year ) - I have been a Berghaus addict for 30 years or so but have found their sizing odd in recent years ( they seem to forget that people on mountains need to put layers on underneath rainwear when it gets cold). The Keela is like Berghaus used to be and that's a good thing. If you can, swing in past their factory in Glenrothes - they have an outlet shop where you can try stuff on to your heart's content and get a discount.

 

[KojakPeg]

Hi Uilleachan
Maybe a cheap oilskin would be worth thinking about, for those really bad days when I know I'll get soaked no matter what. As of the photos, a bit of 80's nostalgia would be great. And as for the salopettes, it's funny you mention them, because when I replace my over trousers I think I'll go for a pair of them. As for the double ventile I would still like to get one but they are expensive and after all the advice on here I think I'll reluctantly give them up for now

Cheers

Hi Andy BB
I never know goretex wasn't breathable below 0 degrees C, but I don't sweet as much when it really cold. As for a poncho, I used to have one along with a few pacamacs that I used to use when I went running

Cheers

Hi baggins
Just when I thought I'd weaned myself off the idea of ventile you and Uilleachan get me hooked again lol. As for the zips I have the same grip. I've seem great Jackets what don't have storm flaps and I just know the water will find it's way in. Why do they do it?

Cheers

Hi Shewie
Yeah the event does look good. I quite like the look of the Montane jackets

Cheers

Hi Winnet
I'm just south of Aberdeen, so we go through the same weather, As for the Montane Extreme smock I was looking at those a while ago. And I really liked the look of them but imagined they would good for the warmer slightly dryer months. So I'm really glad to hear they can cope with all year round Aberdonian weather

Cheers

Hi rg598 (I got your user name wrong in my last post. I called you settler sorry about that have corrected it now)
Yeah I'm definitely looking for waterproofing first, breathability and durability second. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert but I am fairly familiar with goretex etc, but I wanted to do something a bit different this time round and after reading the marketing blurb around ventile I thought I may have stumbled onto something, but I know it couldn't all be true and I wanted to hear form you guys. And while I still have a hankering for fjall raven G-1000 and double ventile I've pretty much scraped my original list. And there are loads of good Goretex etc jackets on sale at the moment. So you guys have defo saved me from making and expensive mistake

Cheers

Hi brambles
Yeah my new short list has the Keela Munro and Montane on it. Glenrothes isn't far away and I'm partial to a good discount lol

Cheers

 

[Uilleachan]

Hi Uilleachan
Maybe a cheap oilskin would be worth thinking about, for those really bad days when I know I'll get soaked no matter what. As of the photos, a bit of 80's nostalgia would be great. And as for the salopettes, it's funny you mention them, because when I replace my over trousers I think I'll go for a pair of them. As for the double ventile I would still like to get one but they are expensive and after all the advice on here I think I'll reluctantly give them up for now

Cheers

If you're going for salopettes, then a shorty is for you and the keala is a good jacket. Mines black, but they also do a green and black among other combinations. Scottish company Scottish made,

I don't get on with shorties & salopettes as a shell solution, because I'd have to take my jacket off to get salopettes on, so I'm stuck in the past preferring a long shell jacket & trousers as for me thats more flexible. For bimbbling around I'm using PVC chaps on the legs so I need a long jacket to keep the wet off my bum.

Back in the 80's among the climbers, the light weight adidas cagoule and similar was thee jacket used by most for actually climbing in, topping out into a cairngorm hooly etc a regular long cag, in nylon and later goretex, went on top. Then a couple of my chums were given an early north face prototype short goretex jacket each to try out for an alpine season, north face were a fledgling company at the time and our mate was the sales rep.

After that the short jacket and salopette combo became popular and more in line with skiing apparel, and then, after that it became subject to mass marketing. The highest spec jackets I've seen in the past 20 years have been worn by joe publics at the bus stop, walking the dog, on an extreme bimbble to the pub etc.

Weird to think that the shorty evolved from a low cost mass produced light weight adidas cagoule, but there you have it.

 

[rg598]

Hi Uilleachan


Hi Andy BB
I never know goretex wasn't breathable below 0 degrees C, but I don't sweet as much when it really cold. As for a poncho, I used to have one along with a few pacamacs that I used to use when I went running

Cheers

Cheers

GoreTex breathes just fine below 0C. I've worn it in -25C and it breathes fine (for what it is). The only time it does not work is in temperatures extreme enough that the water vapor freezes into ice before being able to exit the membrane. That can happen either because you have the jacket too far away from your skin or because it is extremely cold; extremely!

 

[Uilleachan]

Goretex doesn't work well in warm weather either, it needs a temp differential to get the osmosis working, if it's warm enough it also works in reverse.

 

[MikeLA]

My experience of Epic hasn't been too good Ross, give me Paclite or eVent any day over Epic. But Pertex, that's a different gravy altogether, I can work hard all day in my Montane wind shirt and be perfectly dry underneath, amazing stuff.

Agree can do the same with my Buffalo windshirt.

 

[Andy BB]

GoreTex breathes just fine below 0C. I've worn it in -25C and it breathes fine (for what it is). The only time it does not work is in temperatures extreme enough that the water vapor freezes into ice before being able to exit the membrane. That can happen either because you have the jacket too far away from your skin or because it is extremely cold; extremely!

Guess I wasn't wearing Goretex next to my skin at -10c then, because mine stopped working then But then - who does! I'll have a layer or two of merino, followed by mid-layer protection - fleece or similar. (Unless of course I'm wearing my Wiggy's Arctic coat, in which case it'll just be a marino baselayer!) Consider the temp differential between warm air inside a goretex coat and the external temp at sub-zero temps. Instant freeze and consequent blocking of the goretex coating holes.

 

[rg598]

If wearing normal active insulation like 100 weight fleece and 60g of Primaloft insulation, it works fine. I've worn it effectively in temperatures way below 0C. If it is so cold that vapor freezes into ice on contact with the outside air, then there is no material that will be breathable. Breathability requires that water not be a solid.

GoreTex works fine in warm weather (for a hardshell), unless there is no humidity differential. In the rain, none of the shells are particularly breathable.

Don't get me wrong, it is not a magical material, and can be overwhelmed during high activity, but it works as intended under most conditions. There are some hardshell which may be better, but not by much.

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[LoneWalker]

@TentPeg
The link you posted looks like something I am after having spent £270 on a Mountain Equipment Pro-Shell jacket that didn't breathe at all. Is the jacket fairly pack able?


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