Mug Fishing

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mike the pike

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During a recent pike fishing trip on arrival at the river (Thames)we found conditions unfavourable so we decided to have a go for the chub in a small nearby tributary,my mate had a small spinning rod but my heavy pike rod was not suitable so i wrapped 10 yards of his 3lb line around my stainless steel mug and tied a small Mepps spoon to the end(i saw something similar on a Ray Mears TV program),4 trout and 2 chub later my mate had only caught one!By pointing the mug towards where you are throwing the spinner then wrapping the line quickly back round the mug the spinner rotates brilliantly (especially against the current).All the fish were returned(the rainbow trout being out of season)and the biggest trout was about 1lb,i definitely recommend you leave the rod at home next time you go fishing and give this a try.If anyone 's tried it before i'd appreciate any tips on getting in slightly bigger fish (the line cuts into your hand) and also what type of lure works for you?
 

Ed

Admin
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Aug 27, 2003
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I think that if you have already paid for your rod licence and your ticket, the bailiff would have to be pretty mean to ask you to stop.
You'd be lucky if he asked you to stop...... you can be arrested!!!
You may think he is mean but in the eyes of the law he is doing his job.
Just because you have your rod license and ticket does not mean you can use gill nets or pike scissor traps or any other illegal instruments including handlines. Bailiffs check licences, #rods, keep and landing nets, weights, baits, fish sizes and many more things depending on the national and bylaws. If caught fishing with a handline you can be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Here is a cautionary tale......
Three brothers who were fishing for freshwater fish using a handline have landed a total of £750 in fines and costs.
In cases heard in Bridgend Magistrates’ on 19 August 2003, Dwayne and Steven Watts, both of Tenison Road , St Cradocs , Pontypool were found guilty of fishing for freshwater fish in the River Ogmore at Merthyr Mawr on 16 July 2002. Both defendants were fined £200 each and ordered to pay £50 each towards the costs of Environment Agency Wales who brought the prosecutions.
At an earlier hearing a third defendant, Richard Watts of Cherhill Court, Mordon, Swindon had pleaded guilty to the same charge on 15 July 2003. He was fined £150 and ordered to pay £100 costs to the Agency.
The use of an unlicensed instrument is an offence contrary to Section 27(a) of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975.

On a side note, If convicted of poaching you can be fined up to £2500+Costs if I remember correctly. Also your equipment can be confiscated which can include your car if it is deemed you were using it to transport the illegaly poached game.

You have been warned.

Ed
 

Moonraker

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Aug 20, 2004
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One thing that allows annoys me rather, is that the are many rules & regulations like with fishing but no easy access to a simple, comprehensive guide to what is or is not actually allowed. I mean I trawled the Environment Agency web site and they have bits on national byelaws and some regional byelaws but really frustrating when you want to check out and be a good citizen and they do not help with this. Unless things have changed I never received a copy of the regulations when I used to get a licence. :?: If you want people to abide by rules then you do have a duty to make them easily acceptable and in plain English!

As a matter of interest does anyone know what the official legal definition of a 'fishing rod' actually is? I mean if I tie my line to a hazel rod is that a 'rod'? I have seen some amazingly short fishing rods (like for ice fishing etc). And around here in the very small brooks it is normal to have really chopped down rods for casting to the smallest of pools.
 

Rob

Need to contact Admin...
Point taken Ed - trust you to get on to poaching :wink:

The best way to find out what you are and arent allowed to do on any water is to talk to your local fishing club. The fact that they are a club means that they need to have all of their rules and regs readily available so that members know what they can and cant do.

Most bailiffs I have come across are happy, as long as your terminal tackle is right (barbs/no barbs, hook size, illegal rigs etc) and you are not messing up the place. I have fished with twigs as rods before, and there are no definitions of what a rod is to that degree.

Removing coarse fish is usually a no-no!

At the end of the day, I am happy to play most games on the waters that my club manages, but a day ticket water would be a different matter. Talk nicely to the bailiff before he catches you, and he might just be interested enough to let you do it.
 

Realgar

Nomad
Aug 12, 2004
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W.midlands
One thing I haven't managed to find yet is what legal constitues a rod - as poles and whips are allowed, the definition can't involve reels so it must come down to a legal minimum length, the EA site search engine is next to useless. Anyone got any guesses?
Realgar
 

tomtom

Full Member
Dec 9, 2003
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when i was a kid.. well ok a younger kid than i am now.. i used to fish with a bit of bamboo.. a bit of fishing line a cork and a hook.. appart from the fact it is a few feet further away form the body it is still just as basic a set up..

i know this is legal because when i was on holiday on the norfolk(sp) broards i saw these kids of set ups for said for £2-3 next to the buckets and spades.. i cant really understand why the "out of the water" part of the set up is so important anyhow..
 

Ed

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Aug 27, 2003
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As a matter of interest does anyone know what the official legal definition of a 'fishing rod' actually is? I mean if I tie my line to a hazel rod is that a 'rod'?
As far as I'm aware (so i could be wrong) there is no legal deffinition of what a rod is...... If you tie your handline to a piece of hazel you are now a pole fisherman and as long as pole fishing is legal on that strech of water or lake then you are completely legal....
There is no law that says you cannot use a homemade rod..... but again check with the baliff first to avoid any agro

:)
Ed
 

Ed

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One thing that allows annoys me rather, is that the are many rules & regulations like with fishing but no easy access to a simple, comprehensive guide to what is or is not actually allowed.
There is a comprehensive guide to the laws...... they just charge about £27 for it :yikes: Getting the info for free takes a lot of website trawling.... and then it is usualy in legal jargon and takes a few reads to work out what they actually mean.

Ed
 

jakunen

Native
tomtom said:
whats the legal difference between a rod and pole then.. the line is tied to the end of a pole and cant be taken in our let out..??
If the old brain cells are working right, a 'Rod' is any pole with a reel attached to allow line to be paid out and may be made from any material.
A 'Pole' varies. It can be made of any material, although traditionally was made from a birch withy, may have the line attached at the tip, or line run through the centre (with elastic material to act as a shock abosrber), or may have a winder affixed to the base, consisting of two pegs which the line is wound around.
The latter was effectively the forerunner of the modern rod and reel and was used on the Thames during the 18th or 19th century, can't remember exactly.
 

Ed

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Aug 27, 2003
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whats the legal difference between a rod and pole then
Well.... in the eyes of the law there is no difference, they are both rods. But water authoratories have 'RULES AND REGULATIONS' which they impose (as is their legal right to do so) and the distinction is made there between the different types of fishing.

Ed
 

Moonraker

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Ed, That is an interesting quote about the 3 guys caught using fixed lines. They also did not have licences and had not turned up to 2 previous court appearances so obviously they were not on the right side of the law.

But one quote from the same report says:

After the case an Agency spokesperson said: " These men appear to have had little regard for the law or for other people’s property. The only legal way to fish in freshwater is by the use of a rod and line, to be in possession of a valid Agency rod licence and by obtaining the fishery owners permission to fish."

source: http://www.ogmoreriver.com/info/River_pollution.php

However this is incorrect. It is perfectly legal to fish for eels by other means apart from using 'a rod and line', such as with a licenced fyke net or other form of eel trap. I think this just shows why clear, unambiguous information is required.

Realgar said:
One thing I haven't managed to find yet is what legal constitues a rod - as poles and whips are allowed, the definition can't involve reels so it must come down to a legal minimum length, the EA site search engine is next to useless. Anyone got any guesses?
Realgar

Same problem I had and which brought on the general rant about hard to find byelaws/ regulations in a easy to read/ access form.

Rob, I see you point about asking club or bailiff but there can be confusion from different people saying different things and perhaps it is a query about some nuance, like rod definition. The Environment Agency web site has a section for licences with some info here:

EA- Rod Fishing Licences

There for example they have a section on:

EA - National Fisheries Byelaws for Anglers

Which sounds promising :wink: but when you look it has only 10 items and the detail is only basic. Sure, it should be easy to understand without confusing legalise, but really this scanty info.

They also then have a section on:

http://www.environment-agency.gov.u...=_e]EA - Regional Fisheries Byelaws link page

Which seems to only cover some regions, no easy way to see which region you are in and all are in PDF format without a easy to view html page onsite. I found that each byelaw was not standardised which made it hard to read and even the documents confusing. This does not help present the regulations in a clear and easy to understand manner IMHO.

Thee is another section of the EA web site I found ( not an easy task as no link from Licence section) called:

EA -NetRegs - Angling Guidelines

Again this gives some general rules but it is rather confusing. It gives some info for obtaining leaflets by phone.

It gives the folowing advice on relevant legislation:

Relevant Legislation

The legislation listed below is specific to fish and fishing. If you require any further details of this legislation, a hard copy can be obtained from HMSO by telephoning 0870 600 5522. The copy you you view on that site will be the version which was passed at that time.*It will not incorporate any subsequent amendments, and may not therefore represent the current legal position.*However, we are currently updating the website so that where there have been subsequent amendments this is indicated by an asterisk.

The Statutory Publications Office is currently developing a database which will show legislation in its amended form.* We hope to be able to link to this site when it is available. In the meantime, specific information on changes to legislation may be obtained from your legal adviser, environmental consultant or local reference library.

Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975 – This act details the licensing of fishing and activities which are prohibited.

So it looks like it is either some general advice on some issues or applying to HMSO for the full version.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse but there needs to be better information available at the point of purchase ( for instance when you order your fishing licence online, why don't they send you a .pdf format byelaw document, or when you buy it from a tackle shop or post office, they give you a printed version? Then no one has excuses and it would help to avoid misunderstandings etc. Really these days a web site offers the perfect place for this, but it is not there now.

Rather than this, in the South West if I want to read about the byelaws the web site points you have to buy a publication called 'Get Hooked' at a cost of £4.99 :roll:

EA - A guide to angling in the South West'

There may be other ways but it is not obvious from the info provided.

Their web site is not bad as such and has some interesting info but it is difficult to find stuff and missing parts as described.

I am still trying to find out the legal definition of a fishing rod too.

BTW Did you know that the is no national rod licence for fishing in Scotland? In areas covered by a 'Protection Order' you require a permit or written permission from the land owner and these are indicated by signs. If there is no Protection order required then you can fish without one.

source: [http://www.fishingnet.com/misc/law.htm]Fishing Law in Scotand[/url]. As with all things legal best to check most up to date byelaws etc.
 

Ed

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Aug 27, 2003
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Ed, That is an interesting quote about the 3 guys caught using fixed lines. They also did not have licences ....
The only reason they did not have licenses is that you cannot get a handline license in the UK.... and therefore they were using unlicensed equipment ;-)

Ed
 

Rob

Need to contact Admin...
One to remember. Having a rod licence does not mean that you have the right to fish any water, without the permission of whoever controls it. eg Club, landowner, authority etc.

The local tackle shop should be able to put you on the right tracks.

If you sign up for direct debit, you get your rod licence each year in time for the new season - and hopefully the membership year of any club which may want to check it on joining. Helps if you are fogetful too :wink:
 

Moonraker

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Ed said:
The only reason they did not have licenses is that you cannot get a handline license in the UK.... and therefore they were using unlicensed equipment ;-)

Ed

:) I think the reason they did not have licenses was because they were naughty poachers :eek:):
 
M

mike the pike

Guest
Hi all,it honestly never occurred to me that my mug fishing activities might be illegal-but it is such an effective method that i should have guessed,apologies to all and i obviously retract my recommendation to everyone to try it!From a survival/wilderness food procurement point of view all i can say is i was suprised how effective it is.However until the post office start selling mug fishing licences i'll stick to using mine for drinking tea out of. Mike
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
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:rolmao:

mike i have this delightful picture in my head of you trying to explain to a very confused post office assistant what mug fishing is. dressed in full bushcraft gear of course and drawing very curious looks from everyone waiting in the line wondering what the holdup is

this method is definitely one for the survival books :super:

Tant :wink:
 

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