Most durable/long lasting waterproof jackets (without maintenance)

[traveling-neutron]

What is the best waterproof, but still breathable, material for a jacket for the outdoors if you cannot maintain it in anyway other then basic cleaning with water, drying, etc. In other words, you cannot (re)apply any waxes/DFW/treatments/etc. I understand that when its wet, nothing is going to be breathable. When I say breathable I mean when the jacket is not wet. I was looking at jackets made with GORE-TEX and Ventile. It looks like some people say GORE-TEX will need re-treated after some time since it loses its waterproofing and some people say that it does not need re-treatment. After reading about Ventile, it seemed like this material is waterproof because of the properties of the material (and not any coating), yet it seems like manufacturers still add some kind of DFW coating. From what I understand, all these DFW coats lose its functionality either because of sun rays or because of wear.
Is there a jacket which will not lose its waterproof abilities?
Is there another material I should be looking at?

 

[TLM]

OK here goes, two things, breathable (water in gas form) or water permeable membranes that block the liquid water and water repellent on the outer fabric. Two different things that still work together.

Without the water repellent treatment the garment stops "breathing" the moment the outer fabric gets wet, with it it can go on working at reduced capacity.

There are several types of membranes used and some are even coatings. All are thin and generally not very strong mechanically, wear and tear. Some of the hydrophilic polyester membranes are fairly elastic and relatively tough but still thin. In my experience they tend to last a reasonable time. They are not the the most breathable though.

The fluorinated water repellents seem to be phased out as some of them are chemically slightly nasty. The rest are mostly various combinations of hydrophobic waxes, oils or wax like substances. They degrade in the sun and wear out. When water does not form nice drops on the outer fabric it is time to renew the treatment. The fast way to destroy it is wash the garment with detergents or other surface tension modifying agents.

Original GoreTex was a stretched out PTFE membrane that is mechanically quite weak.

 

[EdS]

With those criteria the true answer is none

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have a BCUK ventile jacket, that I have had since around 2008. It had holes appearing at cuffs and other points probably by 2012. I have a Paramo from 2001 which has no wear holes yet anywhere. So while Ventile has an (alleged) waterproof effect by the nature of the fabric, the fibres are not as durable as synthetic, even if it is more thorn resistant.

 

[Laurentius]

Waterproof and breathable are mutual contradictions no matter what the advertising hype says. Vinyl is 100% waterproof. FWIW I have a waxed canvas drizabone style coat that I have had for a very long time and never had to reproof, it just goes on doing it's thing.

 

[Laurentius]

I have a BCUK ventile jacket, that I have had since around 2008. It had holes appearing at cuffs and other points probably by 2012. I have a Paramo from 2001 which has no wear holes yet anywhere. So while Ventile has an (alleged) waterproof effect by the nature of the fabric, the fibres are not as durable as synthetic, even if it is more thorn resistant.

True, it frays, so what you need is leather or suede around the cuffs. Synthetic fibres may be more durable but not anywhere near a fire and don't we bushcrafters like to light fires?

 

[hughtrimble]

I thought Keela's System Dual protection was kind of meant to do this? Totally waterproof outer, breathable inner. I got the impression the outer therefore didn't be to be retreated, but I could be very much wrong:

System Dual Protection Waterproof and Breathable Clothing Technology

Originally developed for use in Military applications, and gone on to be used by Tactical Forces, Mountain Rescue and Emergency Services.

keela-tactical.solutions

 

[TLM]

If the outer fabric is air impermeable no magic is going to make any inner breathable layer breath. There are a few kind of exceptions to this, kind of workarounds. In cool conditions water is going to condense on the inner side of the outer layer, for a while it seems to work but then everything gets wet. Below 0C the condensing water is going to freeze and if the design is clever enough one can every once in a while shake the ice out.

GoreTex is full of very small holes, they can get clogged and the garment has to be washed to get them open again. A special cleaner is recommended. Many but not all membranes work the same way and suffer from the same problem.

 

[EdS]

Umbrella

 

[Laurentius]

I thought Keela's System Dual protection was kind of meant to do this? Totally waterproof outer, breathable inner. I got the impression the outer therefore didn't be to be retreated, but I could be very much wrong:

System Dual Protection Waterproof and Breathable Clothing Technology

Originally developed for use in Military applications, and gone on to be used by Tactical Forces, Mountain Rescue and Emergency Services.

keela-tactical.solutions

Ventile should not be treated the fibres swell like they do in old fashioned tent canvas and don't let water through but it is still wet to the touch, hence a layer underneath. As for Keela, the cuffs fray, and you get holes too because of abrasion. What is a good point is that traditional materials are always repairable. I am not all that good with a needle and thread but I do regard it as much as a bushcraft skill as lighting a fire or building a shelter. If you want something that does not wear through go for leather, that is to say proper veg tan leather, not a thin skin on a reconstituted "cardboard" under layer.

 

[Laurentius]

Umbrella

Until the wind blows it inside out.

 

[John Fenna]

My home made Ventile smock and trousers now sport leather trim on the cuffs as these points tend to wear relatively fast. I made these in 2018 and they have been my "Go To" wear in all but the warmest, driest weather. For the wettest of weather I have Ventile overtrousers (that are worn so little that they are almost mint condition) and a cheap (KombatUK) poncho I picked up in a Charity Shop. For cycling I use Highlander waterproof suit - in a supposed Waterproof Breathable synthetic - that is like wearing a crisp packet but is tough.
Ventile is quiet to wear, very breathable, comfortable next to the skin, easily mended and effective in keeping out the worst of the weather - especially if worn over wool ... or another layer of Ventile. Also, it tends not to melt into holes at the sight of a spark .... or leak if shown a briar bush

 

[Laurentius]

My ventile trousers are in anything but mint condition, they do attract the mud and now have charcoal stains I can't get out. On the whole in summer I prefer to wear shorts as my legs dry more quickly than my trousers and I seem to be warm enough if my top half is covered. I do of course have a pair of ventile shorts.

 

[TLM]

I do of course have a pair of ventile shorts.

I am not certain that it makes any sense from water protection point of view, of course as a style statement it prevails.

 

[hughtrimble]

I am not certain that it makes any sense from water protection point of view, of course as a style statement it prevails.

Certainly does - wet lower legs is a very different experience to wet entire crotch and thigh area

 

[TLM]

Certainly does - wet lower legs is a very different experience to wet entire crotch and thigh area

I have my poncho covering down to about knee height.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Given how my Ventile jacket becomes stiff enough to almost stand up on its own when it is really wet, I have trouble imagining that equally wet Ventile trousers would be comfortable!

It’s been mentioned but worth saying again. When wetted out, Ventile will allow moisture to wick through to inner layers. It is also very cold against the skin, refrigerated would be an apt description. A friend and I did a rainy/snowy winter walk some years back, him in all synthetic and me in all natural with wool trousers and pullover with Ventile on top. He was far more comfortable. We were wearing equivalent weight/thickness insulation. The wet Ventile actively sucked heat away, felt like wearing cold cardboard armour.

 

[John Fenna]

I actively avoid using synthetics unless they are the only realistic option - it is about preserving the environment as much as comfort for me. I find the right choice of natural fibre clothing is just as comfortable for my body as synthetic and a lot more comfortable for my conscience
However, making my own clothing means that I get the fit and features I want, so I guess that that helps with the comfort side of things as well.
I used to review kit and clothing for magazines so have experience of lots of different makes, models, fabrics etc of commercial outdoor clothing and would go for mainly naturals every time now
Other folk may have other views and opinions, differing activities, activity levels, comfort expectations, sartorial demands ... I have mine

 

[TLM]

I actively avoid using synthetics unless they are the only realistic option - it is about preserving the environment as much as comfort for me. I find the right choice of natural fibre clothing is just as comfortable for my body as synthetic and a lot more comfortable for my conscience

While I can understand this viewpoint and am sympathetic to it facts do not always support it. Cotton is very harmful to the environment it is grown in, it requires huge amounts of water both while being grown and being processed. Look at Lake Aral, it has almost totally vanished because the water went into growing cotton.

Wool is much better in this respect, I know some people are against it because of it being of animal origin but I really don't know enough of the ways the sheep are treated to have a meaningful opinion.

In pure waterproofnes properly treated synthetic fabrics are superior to anything natural. One can make cotton tight weaves, waxed cotton and lanolin treated wool which all work to a degree but are still not as good. The synthetic HD versions tend to be long lasting too, I have a PA raincoat that is usable after 55 years of use, zipper seems to be what'll give up first.

Linen, hemp and nettle are environmentally much better fibers than cotton though not really replacements. Better suited to outer garments. Regenerated cellulose might be the future alternative to cotton with closed production processes they are not too bad in that respect and the main problem is the clean production of the cellulose in the first place, that does not really exist now.

 

[John Fenna]

Cotton may take a lot to produce - but at least it rots back into the planet instead of polluting it forever as synthetics do ...
I also use nettle and linen clothing and find them perfectly fine as skin contact fabrics - just as good as Merino wool, something I use a lot of. I have had hemp clothing in the past but prefer nettle.
You can now get recycled cotton Ventile
https://www.profabrics.co.uk/?srsltid=AfmBOoo8CNivSGaVjiIS5nxnnXrKDLQTKYygkxbTiQaeU13cCZdzKs8X
and although I have not tried it yet it does seem to have good press as bombproof weather beating clothing
In a tough, brambly, thorny woodland environment with open fires I would still back naturals over synthetics as low maintenance"bombproof" waterproof breathable fabrics from both performance and sustainability standpoints combined