Moral or other question regarding visits into lower COVID tier area.

[sunndog]

Mother Nature didn't equip me with those particular gonads but Sunndog you're being an idiot about this.

I have replied to you, I was courteous, I did not inflame an already irritated thread any further. You however appear to be determined to take umbrage and have the last word.

If you have done nothing to cause risk to anyone else, why are you so angry ?

Where's your reply to post 18 then? That's what I'm determined about. You go so far as to use the families of the dead! (this is why I'm so angry)
To further your point without even confirming if I am abiding by guidlines or not. Then not even have the common decency to reply, rather worm around things attempting to cement your moral high ground.

I'm really quite disappointed

 

[Tengu]

This year hasnt affected me much; but then I dont travel much.

I think folk should be free to travel as long as they are careful

However there are those who are not careful...

 

[Toddy]

Hang on why am I being vilified here?
Have I said I won't abide by government guidelines?
Have I insisted my case is special?


No I haven't so excuse me if I let your righteous indignation slide on by
Look families of the dead in the eye...no need to go full WMD on me.
My original post might have been advocating tighter restrictions, hairdressing isn't essential work now is it

My question and implication was please don't put time limits on things when there are none.

I rather think you villified yourself on this one.
No one said you wouldn't abide by govt guidelines.
No one said you had insisted your case was special.

My righteous indignation is just that. That you feel it offends you puts no obligation on me not to state the simple statistics that people are dying because social distancing has not been observed.

I really don't see where your anger is coming from.

Either someone's behaviour is part of the problem or it's trying to curb any further spread.

The OP's query about travel from Tier 3 to Tier 1 is not something I would countenance.

 

[Woody girl]

Yes covid sucks. It also sucks being stuck in my home since March on my own. It sucks having to ask others for help now and then when I can't manage something. It sucks that I can't meet my friends and sit together for a chin wag about life. That I've had no holiday this year and don't intend to take one. I've been barely more than half a mile from my home at any point since March. But am I moaning and bitching about it? No, and the reason is that I have to protect myself as I probably won't make it if I catch it.
What upsets me is when people travel to my small town and walk into the shops without gelling their hands wearing masks only over their mouths, pick stuff up, put it down again repeatedly, push past me in the shop asif the marks on the floor arnt there, and shout abuse when I politely ask them to observe the rules.
Until this week we were covid free. Now we have six cases, and several more suspected. They are mostly residents and staff at the local old peoples home. How did it get there?
I guess from somebody who thought they could safely travel and shop in my town on a day out to relieve their boredom.
I guess they will never feel responsible or care a dam.
That's why we should just stay local.wear masks properly observe social distancing when out and about even in the street and just generally be responsible adults.
Sadly responsibility seems to be missing with many. Their enjoyment of life seems more important than possibly being an unwitting or even in some cases a deliberate spreader of covid.
I'm here alone, lonely and worried because of people like that and it makes me sad and not a little angry when I hear them bleating about wanting a holiday as they are stressed.... so am I, we all are, but I'm going to just stay put like Toddy and family., and not rage about it (much as I want to) as it won't help anything.

 

[Paul_B]

Jeez! This used to be a nice place!

Just to let you know I took the advice about taking responsible for myself but not the outcome some say I should be following. I went 5 minutes drive over the border and had a socially distanced get together with my parents who live in Cumbria. I could have done that in tier 3 Lancashire but we chose to do it just in Cumbria because there was more chance of keeping away from people. All of us live in areas with the same risks of infection judging by the infection rates being the same. We kept space, washed hands/used gel and wore masks. Most people we saw there seemed local based on accent but not sure.

Compare that with yesterday. We stayed in tier 3 Lancashire and walked round the coastline near Hest Bank. We passed a lot of people with accents that made me think they were not local. Not local in Lancashire near us included Liverpool or surrounding areas with a softer form of Scouse accent and something like a mild Manchester accent I think. Oh we also queued up for a café where you had to wait outside until an employee took your track and trace details and could seat you. There was one family of scousers without masks on standing right on our shoulders.

Basically two days where we stayed in Lancashire and went just over the border. The Cumbrian visit and staying in tier 3 area both meant similar lower infection rates areas but only the Cumbrians seemed to follow the three actions that have the biggest effect on reducing spread. I must point out that for some reason there's a number of caravan parks which I understand attract people from Liverpool and Manchester areas. They're still open and school half term meant they're busy.

Personally I believe I have not acted any less safely with my family and strangers visiting the part of Cumbria than the part of Lancashire I did the day before. I bet there's less virus spread risk in my movement than the visitors holidaying from Liverpool and those other areas with the highest levels of infection in the country. I am sure I'll get criticism on here from people but today was a real boost for all present. In these times when everything is getting stressful again there's value in that.

 

[Paul_B]

@Woody girl It sucks that you've got conditions that put you at most risk should you get it. It sucks that anyone has to lock themselves away like you and others have to. That doesn't obviously apply to all and the majority are lucky to have more freedom. I get that and appreciate that we're lucky.

However it still doesn't mean that if your movement isn't increasing risk keeping local traveling in one direction compared to travelling the same distance the other way. Travelling North 5 miles or South 5 miles keeps me in an area with the same infection rates, very low. However the county boundary, which has no link to risk of infection, means North is bad but South is ok. Illogical. Both are 5 miles, both are same risk for me and others. The only thing I'm doing wrong is breaking a restriction imposed by incompetent decisions on tiers locations.

Another but if COVID need tonight is that Nottingham and one area of Nottinghamshire was previously reported was going into highest tier midnight tonight. Tonight's news, after latest infection figures, mean all other areas of Nottinghamshire will join them in that higher tier. Meantime I'm those few days how many Nottinghamshire residents have spread out into lower risk areas? Why do they give so much notice and time to have one last fling of freedom / potentially spreading COVID???

 

[Robbi]

@Woody girl It sucks that you've got conditions that put you at most risk should you get it. It sucks that anyone has to lock themselves away like you and others have to. That doesn't obviously apply to all and the majority are lucky to have more freedom. I get that and appreciate that we're lucky.

However it still doesn't mean that if your movement isn't increasing risk keeping local traveling in one direction compared to travelling the same distance the other way. Travelling North 5 miles or South 5 miles keeps me in an area with the same infection rates, very low. However the county boundary, which has no link to risk of infection, means North is bad but South is ok. Illogical. Both are 5 miles, both are same risk for me and others. The only thing I'm doing wrong is breaking a restriction imposed by incompetent decisions on tiers locations.

Another but if COVID need tonight is that Nottingham and one area of Nottinghamshire was previously reported was going into highest tier midnight tonight. Tonight's news, after latest infection figures, mean all other areas of Nottinghamshire will join them in that higher tier. Meantime I'm those few days how many Nottinghamshire residents have spread out into lower risk areas? Why do they give so much notice and time to have one last fling of freedom / potentially spreading COVID???

got it in one !!

 

[Woody girl]

I'll leave you all with one thought.
Covid does not respect man made boundaries if you are out and about.
I take my life in my hands if I go to purchase a bottle of milk. That is why we ALL need to think about our actions. It may be ok for you if you get it but what doesn't seem to get through is that we all need to treat every family member friend and stranger as highly vulnerable and/or a covid risk.
Otherwise we will never get on top of this threat to a great many lives.
Complacency kills. Fact!
Stay safe, be responsible and be the best example you can be to others. Don't think just because you'll be ok ,others you may never know may go through a terrible time or even die just because for a few days you were not aware you were ill

 

[sunndog]

No one said you wouldn't abide by govt guidelines.
No one said you had insisted your case was special.

Even though I don't believe you this is all it would have taken two pages ago. Remember I simply asked for clarity?
A small amount of manners costs nothing and could have avoided a lot of anger and heated posts from appearing on the forum

 

[C_Claycomb]

Sunndog,
I am glad that you understand that you were not being vilified.
I have dipped in and out of this thread. I don't have any desire to enter this particular debate, so call me an outsider. As such, your post where you asked why you were being vilified puzzled the hell out of me. I read and re-read all the posts between that and your first post and could not see what made you think anyone was saying anything aimed at you. Couldn't see why you read what Toddy said as aimed at you in particular.

Yeah, clarification that comments were not aimed at you might have cooled things down sooner. On the other hand, taking the time to consider that those comments were not aimed at you might have stopped you from getting heated to begin with.

Again, from the outside perspective, I don't think you have the position to talk about manners, having got angry with someone for no easily understood reason and then saying they didn't have the balls to reply to your satisfaction. I might just as easily say that you could show manners and apologise for getting angry when there was no need.



Now that we have that matter of forum mis-communication and frayed tempers out of the way...well, I was going to say lets get back to the main discussion, but is there much more left to be said? Does it help to share, discuss and vent? I read the news today and it was all pretty gloomy, I would far rather think about something else if possible!

All the best

Chris

 

[sunndog]

Oh Chris why get involved? At least tony had the sense to take it to pm

I could not read toddys post any other way and I simply don't believe anyone who claims different. Plus if it wasn't aimed at me why not step up and say so? Why deflect and ignore?

Also if you think i now "understand" that I wasn't being vilified please nip back up to my last post and read it again so you "understand" what I wrote there.

Let this be an end to it.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Yeah, why did I bother. Moderation has got to be the most thankless use of time going. Moderate early, you are heavy handed, come in later, why bother?

I thought about sending you a PM, I didn't know you were talking to Tony. In the end I didn't take it to PM because the remarks you made were on the public forum. Taking it to PM and not cleaning the thread leaves the impression with all the other members that there is no moderation, and that angry exchanges are fine. While it may not be possible to cool things early, it should be hoped that people can avoid the need by taking a breath before replying in anger.

Yeah, let's call an end.

Regards

Chris

 

[demographic]

A while ago I heard that hotels weren't allowed to open to full capacity so they were say, letting rooms stay empty for a period after someone stayed in it so it had a chance for the virus to die off in it.

Seemed fair enough to me, but the last six weeks I've been driving past various hotels in the Lake district and the carparks are just as chocka as any other time so that can't be happening.
Anecdotally I've heard one up Borrowdale is at full capacity as well.
What gives? Are they allowed to run at full room capacity now or not?