Met a knife idiot

[Toddy]

I rather wonder if the police would consider it a waste of time though ?
That's a bit of the issue here; if it were reported would they take any official action, and if they did so, a caution for instance, that's a permanent record, and it's a blight to get rid of, and causes all kinds of bother with everything from passports to getting FAC's or the clearances to work with vulnerable adults and/or children.
Bit of a lottery really.

M

 

[sunndog]

Ah, my confusion, sorry.

"DSC1 or Mentoring Conditions:
Having a Deer Stalking Certificate Level 1 may be a requirement before they allow you to stalk deer. There is no legal requirement for this and if your FEO states this you might want to consider contacting one of the organisations such as BASC for advice.
Some forces will insist you have a mentor depending on the area you live. It seems the more rural you are the less restrictions that will apply. If you don't have anyone who can mentor you then your FEO might know someone suitable who you can contact. There is nothing in the firearms law that says you need a mentor."

I know three lads round here who have had 'mentors' though, so I rather thought it was normal.

By the sounds of it, this young man might benefit from one though.

M

Yeah just depends where you live. Some FLO's are a bit 'mentor happy'

I would bet serious money this lad will never apply for a FAC he'll be content being a back garden plinker and bedroom knife polisher until he gets bored.....or gets a girlfriend
He's probably been telling folk about this .303 enfield for years

 

[Janne]

The sad part is that the employee wasted his hard earned money on his pointless knife collection. You only need one knife, correct?

Btw, Spandit, next time he comes around, tell him he can get the ammo for his airgun in Scandinavia. Shipping should be cheaper than from US.

 

[santaman2000]

The sad part is that the employee wasted his hard earned money on his pointless knife collection. You only need one knife, correct?......

Yeah. One knife. One gun. One rucksack. One fishing rod. That should be enough to make us all happy.

 

[santaman2000]

.....Now although it may seem difficult to justify carrying a Rambo style knife, (dont know why its called oversized, as its much shorter than a sword), lets say that with his experience of digging ponds, which may mean the removal of trees , bushes etc, he had found that this knife was the best knife for removing the roots that are deep in the holes he was digging to make the pond, I myself have used a Dartmoor Knife for this purpose and found it quite suitable, the saw back comes in handy..

To be fair, in my experience the best tool for removing trees and brush to dig ponds has been an adequately sized bulldozer. A D9 usually does a good job.

 

[santaman2000]

Ask him to carve you something like a spoon. With his expertise and useful knife.

I'll never understand this obsession with spoon carving.

 

[santaman2000]

My first reaction is that some idiot stupidly showing off with a stupid knife.....

Showing off with a knife? Or showing off the knife itself. There's a difference. Most of us who have collections of anything, guns, knives, cars (hot rods or old classics) militaria (patches, collectable uniforms, mess kits, etc.) or whatever else love to show them to people.

 

[Janne]

That is the point of collecting, showing the stuff to like minded and the rest of the world?

 

[C_Claycomb]

The laws against carrying knives without good reason are not there because of idiots, but because of people with messed up moral compasses, rubbish impulse control, violent tendencies and a general willingness to maim or murder rather than take perceived slights or risk losing face with their equally messed up peers. They undoubtedly catch a lot of idiots.

I for one loath the present idea that because it is not possible to prevent our social dregs from committing crimes, society is happy to ban or criminalise whole swathes of objects so that merely carrying or possessing them becomes the crime, whether there was any intent to cause harm or not. I know it is law, and I follow the law to the best of my ability, but that doesn't mean I think it is right or that I am happy with it, or that I would want to help it be enforced at every opportunity.

This young chap sounds to us about how we all sound to the rest of the public. I agree that his taste sounds pretty dreadful, and that he is a bit of an idiot, but he has a job, likes knives and wants to be able to use the tools he likes. In my book that is no different from someone liking their Gransfors and carrying it on camping trips or carrying a locking folder on a building site. I have done plenty of camping in the UK and not needed an axe and I know that people manage on job sites with knives by Stanley.

Showing an interest, acting friendly so that someone is put at ease, then reporting them to the police is, I think, pretty scummy behaviour. Who here would want that to happen to themselves? Out for a walk somewhere that they think they can justify carrying a Mora and Wildlife hatchet, meet a someone walking a dog or hiking who expresses interest in bushcraft, have a nice chat, then later find this person reported them to the police as a possible danger to society!?!

I think the lad needs to be told that he is on thin ice, that he is not creating a good impression and that he is increasing the risks faced by everyone else with whom he shares his interest....and that even for big knives, his choices are rubbish. Maybe the message will go in, maybe it won't. It stands a better chance from making an impact from someone who knows what they are on about and has knowledge rather than someone who is merely nervous and fearful.

 

[spandit]

Gosh, lots of replies since I last checked this thread - seems to be quite a divisive issue! Thread title was changed by moderators and I've received a slap on the wrist for circumventing the swear filter

I'd like to clarify that he wasn't threatening me with a knife and wasn't "waving it about" - I'd commented on the knife around his neck and he thought I'd be interested in the knife he had in the car so he fetched it and showed it to me. I do agree he's on thin ice legally as I'm not convinced that someone doing that job can really justify carrying a tool around but I'm not about to run to the police (although funnily enough, I did discuss him with a police friend of mine during a conversation about something different ). I'm just a bit wary of the sort of person who is attracted to the military/tactical stuff but in fairness when I was much younger (than him) I'd have coveted such things.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I for one loath the present idea that because it is not possible to prevent our social dregs from committing crimes, society is happy to ban or criminalise whole swathes of objects so that merely carrying or possessing them becomes the crime, whether there was any intent to cause harm or not.

This young chap sounds to us about how we all sound to the rest of the public. I agree that his taste sounds pretty dreadful, and that he is a bit of an idiot, but he has a job, likes knives and wants to be able to use the tools he likes. In my book that is no different from someone liking their Gransfors and carrying it on camping trips or carrying a locking folder on a building site.

Showing an interest, acting friendly so that someone is put at ease, then reporting them to the police is, I think, pretty scummy behaviour.

Sounds spot on to me.

K

 

[sunndog]

The laws against carrying knives without good reason are not there because of idiots, but because of people with messed up moral compasses, rubbish impulse control, violent tendencies and a general willingness to maim or murder rather than take perceived slights or risk losing face with their equally messed up peers. They undoubtedly catch a lot of idiots.

I for one loath the present idea that because it is not possible to prevent our social dregs from committing crimes, society is happy to ban or criminalise whole swathes of objects so that merely carrying or possessing them becomes the crime, whether there was any intent to cause harm or not. I know it is law, and I follow the law to the best of my ability, but that doesn't mean I think it is right or that I am happy with it, or that I would want to help it be enforced at every opportunity.

This young chap sounds to us about how we all sound to the rest of the public. I agree that his taste sounds pretty dreadful, and that he is a bit of an idiot, but he has a job, likes knives and wants to be able to use the tools he likes. In my book that is no different from someone liking their Gransfors and carrying it on camping trips or carrying a locking folder on a building site. I have done plenty of camping in the UK and not needed an axe and I know that people manage on job sites with knives by Stanley.

Showing an interest, acting friendly so that someone is put at ease, then reporting them to the police is, I think, pretty scummy behaviour. Who here would want that to happen to themselves? Out for a walk somewhere that they think they can justify carrying a Mora and Wildlife hatchet, meet a someone walking a dog or hiking who expresses interest in bushcraft, have a nice chat, then later find this person reported them to the police as a possible danger to society!?!

I think the lad needs to be told that he is on thin ice, that he is not creating a good impression and that he is increasing the risks faced by everyone else with whom he shares his interest....and that even for big knives, his choices are rubbish. Maybe the message will go in, maybe it won't. It stands a better chance from making an impact from someone who knows what they are on about and has knowledge rather than someone who is merely nervous and fearful.

Very well said fella *doffs cap

 

[ValeTudoGuy]

Wowzers

1: Theres lots of assumptions about a persons character based on one persons impressions during what seems to be a relatively short encounter.

2: As someone who worked in the Police for 5 years.... I can safely say that I would'nt have thanked you for raising this job and im pretty confident that a vast percentage of the other officers I have worked with would either. Mainly because there much more pressing things to deal with and the paperwork involved for the officer would probably be more of a punishment than this lad would endure.

3: The guy gets his **** out of bed and goes to work, theres nothing to suggets he was running through a council estate swinging this blade around to protect his [business interests].

4: Theres plenty of things you could be arrested for carrying. A Tire Iron is a weapon once its wielded in such a manner to cause distress or alarm, I would much rather see the police called for incidents of agression no matter what the implement rather than over reacting to the ownership of specific items.... If all knives were banned, then crims would just start carrying screwdrivers.

 

[UKYanky]

I had a Rambo knife was I was about 14 lol, crappy compass in the handle and sewing kit and all that...omg I cringe now but still as I think about those days I do have a smile on my face.
These days I get excited about a spork!

 

[Kepis]

On the pond digging Spandit, give PHB a call http://www.lakes-ponds.co.uk/

 

[Klenchblaize]

Wowzers

1: Theres lots of assumptions about a persons character based on one persons impressions during what seems to be a relatively short encounter.

2: As someone who worked in the Police for 5 years.... I can safely say that I would'nt have thanked you for raising this job and im pretty confident that a vast percentage of the other officers I have worked with would either. Mainly because there much more pressing things to deal with and the paperwork involved for the officer would probably be more of a punishment than this lad would endure.

3: The guy gets his **** out of bed and goes to work, theres nothing to suggets he was running through a council estate swinging this blade around to protect his [business interests].

4: Theres plenty of things you could be arrested for carrying. A Tire Iron is a weapon once its wielded in such a manner to cause distress or alarm, I would much rather see the police called for incidents of agression no matter what the implement rather than over reacting to the ownership of specific items.... If all knives were banned, then crims would just start carrying screwdrivers.

You were doing fine until the "If all knives were banned, then crims would just start carrying screwdrivers" bit. As we all know criminals really don't give a **** for the Law which explains why crime involving handguns has increased since I was compelled to hand mine to the nice Desk Sergeant at Sevenoaks Police Station!

K

 

[santaman2000]

That is the point of collecting, showing the stuff to like minded and the rest of the world?

Not the entire point, but yeah, a major part of it. Would you buy a work of art and hide it in the basement? My more aesthetically pleasing guns are hanging on my walls; I have plans a similar display of Daddy's machetes and jungle helmet he used and wore in Central and South America. As well as plans to hang my saltwater fishing rods on a wall opposite some of the guns.

 

[Corso]

You were doing fine until the "If all knives were banned, then crims would just start carrying screwdrivers" bit. As we all know criminals really don't give a **** for the Law which explains why crime involving handguns has increased since I was compelled to hand mine to the nice Desk Sergeant at Sevenoaks Police Station!

K

Not so stop and search in London's high risk areas have caused just that and a recent report stated that screwdriver stab wounds are on the rise

 

[ValeTudoGuy]

You were doing fine until the "If all knives were banned, then crims would just start carrying screwdrivers" bit. As we all know criminals really don't give a **** for the Law which explains why crime involving handguns has increased since I was compelled to hand mine to the nice Desk Sergeant at Sevenoaks Police Station!

K

Point taken and of course you are right in the most part.

You cant do much other than serious and constant intervention for serious crims. Although the kids who carry them for a perception of protection have mostly abandoned knives anyway, dogs and everday object do enough damage to protect them that they will always find something to carry/bring along.

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

If you take a mental step back from this thread it is easy to see that the entire issue is/was to do with perception and interpretation.

Perception of a threat and interpretation of the law.

I state is/was because the ‘facts’ as declared by the OP may have changed slightly during the ping-pong match – at one point the lad was carrying the knife (perceivably on him?) later it appears that he has fetched it from a vehicle – material aspects relevant to each side of this debate as to whether any law has been broken .

That aside, the OP must have perceived a potential threat – at the time to himself or for someone, somewhere in the future or he wouldn’t have made the OP.

Some of us are perceiving a potential threat irrespective of any law issue, others not seeing or ignoring any perceived threat and trying to apply the law in black and white and looking for reasonable excuse to justify possession of an offensive weapon for an arguably dubious ‘work’ related purpose.

Here is another real life example –

“I was carrying the knife in my jeans pocket (a 4 inch lock blade folder) because I was just on my way to cut some lino at a friend’s house”.

Whilst we have the benefit on this site of debating the content of the OP over hours/days etc, consider the time scale for a police officer in any given similar situation – moments.

Put yourself in the officer’s position:
Your primary function is the protection of life - yes, even pre-emptive!
(Your secondary function is the protection of your own livelihood.)

Confronted with such a situation, there is no way that a police officer is just going to let it go (I hope!), there are going to be consequences!

Some here have put it quite well in their responses, it isn’t just about ‘the law’ it is about perception -

Seen in isolation this thread could be misleading to the lesser informed.

Open debate - fair play but surely the collective message that should be coming from this forum for the benefit all but specifically the inexperienced is something along the lines of -

Have your knife; Make it an appropriate knife; Know the basic law; Don’t carry if you don’t need it; If you carry in public (to/from bush crafting) don’t make it easily accessible; Only use it where you have permission to do so; Don’t forget to remove it from your kit post outing.

Above all – ignorance is no defence.

.