Long range elk shot with .243 Win (Warning: Graphic)

[santaman2000]

You might like a replica of a double barreled howdah pistol. early 19th century hunters in India (particularly British hunters) carried them in the howdahs as a backup in case tiger or other dangerous game attacked. Pederosoli makes an excellent one and markets it through Cabela's and bass Pro (which have now merged due to Bass Pro buying Cabela's) This one's a 20 gauge listed at $699

https://screenshots.firefox.com/MvgxmNnwgbN2u2rE/www.cabelas.com

https://screenshots.firefox.com/oqheMkdFSQq0R4Tq/www.cabelas.com

https://screenshots.firefox.com/FryAS6onF6lMg9a8/www.cabelas.com

https://screenshots.firefox.com/daA6LJjAVu2byVZw/www.cabelas.com


I certainly want one! LOL

 

[santaman2000]

Pederosoli also make a series of double barreled muzzle loading big game rifles (safari rifles) in 3 different calibers" 50 caliber, 58 caliber, and 72 caliber. Here's their own product description:

Kodiak Express
In the 19th century the muzzle loading double barrel rifle was the gun for hunting in the wide African and India’s regions. With our Kodiak today, we keep the dream alive for many hunters.
Our double express rifle has blued barrels, engraved locks, adjustable rear sight, walnut stock with cheek piece and a small German silver plate to complete with the initials. The Kodiak is used with success during the hunting sessions in Africa and in America and it is considered by the muzzle loading hunters the ideal rifle with its reliable and quick second shot.
It is available in various calibers and also in the Kombo version: one rifled barrel and one smooth barrel 12 gauge. On request it can be manufactured with interchangeable 12 gauge barrels.

Here's the Kodiak Express MK III (50, 54, or 58 caliber)

and the Safari Express (72 caliber)

and lastly the Kodiak Express MK VI (50, 54, or 58 caliber)

I gotta win the lottery!!!

 

[snappingturtle]

I think having a brace of those pistols I would feel more like Dick Turpin than a guy on Safari!, but they are very nice, and the Safari express in 72 cal perfect!

 

[Paul_B]

I'm not a hunter or shooter myself but this thread I find very interesting. I can't really contribute directly but I have a shooting story indirectly.

We used to take short walking breaks in a very rugged but quiet corner of Scotland in mostly winter or autumn times. Often during deer season. This meant we met this couple repeatedly. He was a hunter very keen. After the foot and mouth times when the hills were starting to open up he booked back weekend shoot at his favourite location (commercial deer shoot land). He saw plenty of signs of deer but had nothing to shoot at. His style was stalk a little bit mostly sit and wait for them at a location he'd identified as having recent deer activities.

Our technique was to drive down quiet country roads at dusk and try not to hit the deer we saw a very hard task at times. One launched itself over the top of the car which was impressive.

Anyway that guy had finished his weekend with nothing and had been given a free weeks shoot because he's a regular and they needed to cull an overpopulation caused by no shooting for a season. He never got a sniff at a shot fit the whole week by the sit and wait method. Unusual for him, he always got a deer normally.

I believe he liked to take close shots to be sure. This clip made me think that's a better way. I felt the distance was too far to be certain if successful shot. Was there a guide ready to take a second shot if unsuccessful? What if she only injured the animal?

This thread seems like we're congratulating her on an impressive shot but is it right? It doesn't seem to me it is, but I'm no shooter.

 

[santaman2000]

......I believe he liked to take close shots to be sure. This clip made me think that's a better way. I felt the distance was too far to be certain if successful shot. Was there a guide ready to take a second shot if unsuccessful? What if she only injured the animal?

This thread seems like we're congratulating her on an impressive shot but is it right? It doesn't seem to me it is, but I'm no shooter.

Yes there was a guide (generally called "outfitter" here) That was who you hear in the clip with her (telling her to take the shot and praising it afterwards) No, guides don't do followup shots on non-dangerous game. They do provide the horses and camps (or hunting lodge and motor transport) as well as food on most guided hunts.

 

[santaman2000]

Here's a good idea of common guided elk hunts. One day this is on my bucket list. I've done self guided deer hunts in the mountains of Nevada (much sparser camping at those)

 

[Janne]

PaulB, it is an awesome shot, trust me. Either great luck or a good skill ( wind calculations).

Im my military days, my sniper team trained to take a head shot on 1000m with a specially made (Swedish made, AK4OR) HK G3 in 308 Nato ( special ammo), requirement was one shot - one kill 95% . 4x magnification scope. Selected barrel, fine tuned action.

Very difficult. What that lady did was very good, no matter the calibre, gun or scope. Perfect technique.

 

[Paul_B]

Oh I have no doubt it was a good shot but it's a shot I am not sure should have been tried. The reason I asked about a second shooter to be ready as back up was because it could have been a shot resulting in an injured animal running off to later die.

The idea of a backup shooter is something I wonder about. I can understand the experience of a client doing such a shot will result in a happy client. However I'd have thought a skilled shooter ready to tidy up a clients shot makes sense.

 

[Janne]

The negative with a such long shot, if wounding only, must be that the time it takes for the shooter to reach the area where the snimal was shot, track it and finish it must be substantial - so prolonged suffering.
Plus the increased rish of wounding only ( distance)

Personally I did, and will, only shoot paper and steel on distances like that.

 

[santaman2000]

A "back-up" shot by another shooter (presumably the outfitter/guide) wouldn't really be possible to be honest. Think about it a minute. you're suggesting such a shot IF the hunter only wounded the animal. By the time the outfitter saw that, the animal would be moving off. If you think that shot --- at that distance --- was a difficult one to make on a stationary target, just imagine the outfitter trying a follow-up shot on a moving animal at the same distance.

 

[mrostov]

In places like Wyoming a 600 yard shot is a good shot but not in the realm of wildly unusual. What I thought was neat about it was that she was using a .243 Win, not a .300 WinMag or something like that. The guide was responsible in that he had her shoot it behind the shoulders.

I don't like taking head shots because the head moves around a lot, especially on a deer. However, I know of people that have killed deer with 200 to 300 yard head shots. One was a 10 year old kid that nailed a mule deer in the head at about 250 yards with a .223 fired out of a 16" barrel AR-15 (the AR-15 military style collapsible stock works great with kids) using a 64gr Winchester Power Point load. It hit the deer head on at a slight angle, entering the lower jaw, and it blew off the side of the deer's head. He probably hit that deer at 250 yards with about as much retained bullet energy as that girl in the video with the .243 Win hit that elk with at 688 yards.

With a modern hunting bullet you have good killing power due to controlled expansion. The ballistic coefficient can matter a lot at longer ranges because the higher the BC the more energy it retains downrange. The 6mm 105 grain Berger VLD hunting bullet, what the girl used in the video, has a BC of .545, which is superb. When that bullet hit that elk at 688 yards it was still supersonic and was probably packing around 700 ft/lbs of energy, which is just under half of what a mountain man era style .50 Hawken muzzleloading rifle does at the muzzle with a .50cal round ball.

Some game it's hard to get close to on foot, especially in open country, and some of that terrain you need to be marathon fit to chase game down and get close. Also, unlike a deer, an elk will travel 15 miles in a day if it feels like it. The American whitetail deer will typically hang out within a relatively short distance from where it was born.

From a hunting to eat, survival perspective, having the ability to drop a 500 to 700 lb game animal from a long distance is a valuable ability.

That said, here in the coastal bend area of eastern Texas, over 2100km from Wyoming, the situation is fairly different. In the thick oak forest your shots are typically well under 100 yards, and most people hunt from a stand.

In the city limits the range is very short and I'm using my bow anyway because you can't legally use a firearm. That is stalking. I know of people that have killed deer, legally with a bow, on the local golf course, on a baseball field, and behind Walmart... yes, this is Texas. The golf course management was quite upset (he nailed it just outside the oak forest that borders the golf course), but the local Fish & Game cops got involved and they informed the golf course management that they didn't post it no trespassing nor did they post it no hunting and he did have a hunting license and a deer tag.

Out at the wildlife preserve during deer season it's more open and you have to hunt from a stand, it's required. So, you are looking at a rifle shot at whatever distance the game presents itself. So, depending on where your stand is at, be prepared for a shot that could be anywhere up to 300 yards or so.

 

[Paul_B]

Thank you for educating me. As I said I'm not a shooter but it does concern me about the animal welfare side. BTW that doesn't mean I'm against hunting for food or sport. I'd like to try both one day but doubt I'll get the chance.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

One was a 10 year old kid that nailed a mule deer in the head at about 250 yards with a .223 fired out of a 16" barrel AR-15 (the AR-15 military style collapsible stock works great with kids) using a 64gr Winchester Power Point load. It hit the deer head on at a slight angle, entering the lower jaw, and it blew off the side of the deer's head. He probably hit that deer at 250 yards with about as much retained bullet energy as that girl in the video with the .243 Win hit that elk with at 688 yards.
.

Note the 'spelling' of one of the words - is this US English ? That must have given some pain !!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Ka9IP4fWTg/UDplMjH8YHI/AAAAAAAAHQQ/cfckQveuvy0/s1600/tyler+cannon+****+this+deer+dr+heckle+funny+***+headlines.jpeg

 

[widu13]

Thank you for educating me. As I said I'm not a shooter but it does concern me about the animal welfare side. BTW that doesn't mean I'm against hunting for food or sport. I'd like to try both one day but doubt I'll get the chance.

It was a good shot, but whilst skilled in application it was pure luck that between pulling the trigger and the target being hit (a bullet flight time of 1-1.5 secs) that the deer didn't move. A very slight movement would have missed the vital heart/lungs area.

Deer are renowned for living for weeks and starving to death with a serious jaw/facial injury should the bullet have hit there (entirely possible with the flight time) or several hours of misery for the animal after receiving an abdominal wound and it running away fuelled by adrenaline.

I have been shooting firearms for around 40 years now in various forms and simply would not contemplate a similar shot due to the flight delay and the fact that the bullet is dropping like a stone at that distance. I would clarify that the ballistics are a known value and are a reasonable simple calculation, but a calculation nonetheless.

I've said enough now. It's clear that some people believe it is acceptable to wound an animal for sport shooting or at least for that chance to be taken and others don't.

 

[mrostov]

Nothing is ever guaranteed, even at closer ranges. You should always find your shot game. This is why, like a lot of hunters, I carry a blood light. It makes the job a bit easier should it be needed. My personal belief is that on deer, and most game, people should try to avoid taking head shots unless absolutely necessary.

In most of the country people don't take long shots because you can't see game that far due to vegetation and terrain. In the east and southeast, a long shot is about 300 yards.

With bow hunting the deer moving is a major concern. For those unfamiliar with bow hunting, deer do a thing called 'jumping the string'. Bow hunting tends to be very close range. The deer can hear the string release of the bow and often they instantly drop their bodies.

In the US we lose about 100,000 deer a year, nation wide, simply due to traffic accidents. Texas alone (Texas is roughly the size of France) has about 1 million deer. However, the #1 game animal many are going for these days isn't deer, it's wild hogs. Their populations everywhere are just growing like mad.

 

[santaman2000]

Thank you for educating me. As I said I'm not a shooter but it does concern me about the animal welfare side. BTW that doesn't mean I'm against hunting for food or sport. I'd like to try both one day but doubt I'll get the chance.

Don't give up hope.

 

[abilou]

PaulB, it is an awesome shot, trust me. Either great luck or a good skill ( wind calculations).

Im my military days, my sniper team trained to take a head shot on 1000m with a specially made (Swedish made, AK4OR) HK G3 in 308 Nato ( special ammo), requirement was one shot - one kill 95% . 4x magnification scope. Selected barrel, fine tuned action.

Very difficult. What that lady did was very good, no matter the calibre, gun or scope. Perfect technique.

I assume this is a typo and you meant 100 m

 

[Janne]

No. Today, with todays ammo, guns and equipment, dniprts in most armies can do even better.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

I assume this is a typo and you meant 100 m

Military Snipers are trained out to 1000m +
It takes an awful lot of computations before taking the shot, these include not only, bullet trajectory/drop, but windage, air temperature, humidity, heat-haze and a number of other factors - one of the most amazing is the Coriolis effect.

The Coriolis effect takes into consideration the rotation of the Earth.
The Earth rotates at 460m/sec, and everything attached to the Earth rotates with it (obviously), however anything not attached to the Earth does not rotate with it.
Once you have fired the bullet, the Earth, the Sniper and the target continue to move at 460m/sec but the bullet does not, so the Sniper has to also work out if he is firing 'with', 'against' or any other angle compared to the rotation of the Earth, and take the Coriolis effect into his computations.
The Coriolis effect also varies with Latitude, so not only do you need to know which direction you are firing, but your position on the planet as well.

The longest known & confirmed Sniper shot were made by a British Soldier, Corporal of Horse Craig Harrison, of the Blues & Royals, Household cavalry, who recorded two, 2,475m (2,707 yd) shots (confirmed by GPS) in November 2009 during the war in Afghanistan, in which he hit two Taliban insurgents consecutively.

I am fortunate enough to own 2x British Sniper rifles - one of which served in the Falklands, an awesome bit of history.

Edit to add :
Craig's record has now been broken by a Canadian soldier who shot an IS militant dead from 3,540m (just over 2 miles away) in Iraq in 2017.
The bullet took 10 seconds to reach its target and travelled at 792mph (faster than a Boeing 747)

 

[Janne]

When I first heard they had to compute for the Corealis effect I thought they joked, but it does make a deflection of centimeters on those distances.

I guess they prefer to shoot in a pure East-West ( or opposite) direction?