London riots
- Thread starter Maggot
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strange that actually, there's stacks of blank girocheques in job centres and apart from a serial number there's no security measures at all with a blank giro, all the security measures stem from the printing of the thing and anyone with access to a looted PCworld can manage that, the unemployed know all that too, strange really
Well since someone mentioned welfare and how some get a nice house out of it can I tell you about someone I used to know? She went out and deliberately went out to get pregnant with some guy who she had no intention of staying with. This was after a friend told her that she'd get a house if she had a kid. Afterall her friend had a house and benefits. Anyway she ended up with two or three kids (can't remember now as it was probably about 2 years into Labour reign which is a while ago). That meant she got a nice 3 bed semi detached house in a nice suburb of the town. She got it for free and also got help with furnishings. On top of that she got child support and many other benefits. Then she got her hands on the kids' fathers who were suckers with reasonably good jobs who worked hard all their life. She practically blackmailed them with contacting the CSA. That resulted in them paying a regular support to her. This was not mentioned to anyone, not the CSA as she'd end up with less out of them if it had gone through the CSA nor the benefits office.
Anyway a few of us worked out the benefits in kind she got through the house and other benefits. Bear in mind it was over 10 years ago when cost of living was a lot less. We worked out the level of income for a single adult to need to afford the mortgage of that house and also to have the 3 or 4 overseas holidays she had (without her kids) each year and the lifestyle which was all about going out and enjoying herself. That worked out at more than £25K. Not sound much?? Well at the time it was a lot more than any of us were earning despite the fact we put in 50 hour weeks or more to get what we got. It was also at a time when Petrol was half the price it is now, bread and other staple foods were also cheaper. It was in a cheaper part of the country to live where the standard of living was better as it was less to live there. Also the house back then would have cost about £50-60k so the mortgage was based on that. Now of course that same house is a hell of a lot more and would be beyond the affordability of a lot of people my age.
Well as someone at the time who had a smaller house on mortgage, who couldn't afford overseas holidays, who rarely went for nights out because of money I can say it made me sick and totally shocked. I agree with a safety net for those who fall on hard times. I agree totally with that. For me it is just hard to stomach when benefits are the career of choice for some people because it is easier and better than working for a living. This is where we are at in some cases. Is that right? Should we be in a nation where the assumption is that the state will provide for you or should we provide for ourselves? And I am aware it is hard to find work. That is what a safety net is for but there are jobs out there. What gets me is how you can get away with not working for years on end. I signed on a few times. It never lasted long because I went out to an agency and got a minimum wage job before minimum wage came in of course. IIRC I was on something like £5 per hour about 18 years ago I think. I did anything I was offered and made the best of it. Now our company uses agency and I know there are jobs for everyone as we have taken on some real hopeless people before now who still made the effort. It is hard but not impossible. There are many who just don't want to work. There was a programme on TV where this woman got a load of long term unemployed back into work. Most wanted work but didn't know how to get it. Many didn't want work until she made them try it. They liked it in the end. Perhaps there needs to be some incentive to work not to sign on?!!
Anyway a few of us worked out the benefits in kind she got through the house and other benefits. Bear in mind it was over 10 years ago when cost of living was a lot less. We worked out the level of income for a single adult to need to afford the mortgage of that house and also to have the 3 or 4 overseas holidays she had (without her kids) each year and the lifestyle which was all about going out and enjoying herself. That worked out at more than £25K. Not sound much?? Well at the time it was a lot more than any of us were earning despite the fact we put in 50 hour weeks or more to get what we got. It was also at a time when Petrol was half the price it is now, bread and other staple foods were also cheaper. It was in a cheaper part of the country to live where the standard of living was better as it was less to live there. Also the house back then would have cost about £50-60k so the mortgage was based on that. Now of course that same house is a hell of a lot more and would be beyond the affordability of a lot of people my age.
Well as someone at the time who had a smaller house on mortgage, who couldn't afford overseas holidays, who rarely went for nights out because of money I can say it made me sick and totally shocked. I agree with a safety net for those who fall on hard times. I agree totally with that. For me it is just hard to stomach when benefits are the career of choice for some people because it is easier and better than working for a living. This is where we are at in some cases. Is that right? Should we be in a nation where the assumption is that the state will provide for you or should we provide for ourselves? And I am aware it is hard to find work. That is what a safety net is for but there are jobs out there. What gets me is how you can get away with not working for years on end. I signed on a few times. It never lasted long because I went out to an agency and got a minimum wage job before minimum wage came in of course. IIRC I was on something like £5 per hour about 18 years ago I think. I did anything I was offered and made the best of it. Now our company uses agency and I know there are jobs for everyone as we have taken on some real hopeless people before now who still made the effort. It is hard but not impossible. There are many who just don't want to work. There was a programme on TV where this woman got a load of long term unemployed back into work. Most wanted work but didn't know how to get it. Many didn't want work until she made them try it. They liked it in the end. Perhaps there needs to be some incentive to work not to sign on?!!
I saw on the BBC something about how the riots are being reported around the world.
Iran is pleading that the British police respect the protesters' human rights!! They are calling for dialogue between the police and the rioters!!
Then there are the plainly absurd or surreal stories like the Russian news channel or newspaper (can't remember which) who has reported that the rioters had released elephants and lions from London zoo. Apparently they reported as truth that lions could be heard roaring across London!! ***?! I think some in Russia are smoking a little too much super skunk.
There were many other stories. The most funny were from Middle East or other countries who don't like Britain traditionally. I'd seriously like to hear what Mugabe would say. Reckon that would be funny too.
Iran is pleading that the British police respect the protesters' human rights!! They are calling for dialogue between the police and the rioters!!
Then there are the plainly absurd or surreal stories like the Russian news channel or newspaper (can't remember which) who has reported that the rioters had released elephants and lions from London zoo. Apparently they reported as truth that lions could be heard roaring across London!! ***?! I think some in Russia are smoking a little too much super skunk.
There were many other stories. The most funny were from Middle East or other countries who don't like Britain traditionally. I'd seriously like to hear what Mugabe would say. Reckon that would be funny too.
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
A good friend of mine was working to 1am on a commission in her workshop on Monday did she deserve the treatment on the way home?
Was she wearing a hoody/scarf over her face carrying a boxed x-box under one arm and a pair of Nikes under the other?
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
In fact, can't we hire some of the Israeli Defence Force to sort out the riots, I'm pretty sure things would be quite within 24 hours of them being deployed
You've got to love them, they use stun grenades to get people off the streets
Oooh one small step further and you get Mossad, boy those guys know how to sort out the bad guys, is that really what you want in the UK? I have no doubt it would quieten things down but at what cost to civil liberties?
robin wood
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Civil liberties are the same for all of us, innocent until proven guilty etc. many people better than me laid down their lives over the centuries to get what we have today, the rule of law, not the law of the jungle. The shop owners did not loose any civil liberties, due to unlawful actions they lost property and some have even lost lives, it is very sad and I hope the perpetrators are brought to justice. I would not wish to see them battered in the street by folk who in the heat of the moment may make mistakes.
fair point, innocent untill found running out of JD Sport with 7 pairs of trainers, innocent untill found torching a shop, innocent untill found mugging an injured exchange student.....civil liberties !.... they don't have any !!
shop owners haven't lost any "civil liberties"........the right to work, the right to provide for their family, the right to a home life.....all lost ! civil liberties ! my ar5e !!
Mostly agree with you Robbi but there is one other point to consider also. Some of those people caught in the mayhem if the police get too heavy just might be some of those shop owners who were out and about trying their best to protect their property/livelihood.
BOD
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
The Israeli agencies do not care if you are a good guy or bad guy. As long as you are useful to them you will be okay. Once you are not needed or simply inconvienient you become expendable. This happens even to innocent people who have had no contact with them.
The "ends" do not justify the means because there is no "end" just short or medium term objectives to further policies that keep on changing according to political expediency.
The current "end" is not a better society as most of us want but urban pacification so as not to upset the economy, investors and high status projects like the Olympics.
In 10 years there will be little real difference
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