Living in the woods

[treecraft]

I have been wanting to do this for a while and now I've some money for tools and such, so I thought it's about time. However it was suggested by an acquaintance that it may not be legal.

Note that I'm not talking about the UK, I'm talking about Europe.

Anyway, what I wanna do is gather up a bunch of gear (an axe, a saw, etc.) and go deep into the wilderness in Finland, Sweden, Norway and Russia - they all have large uninhabited woodland areas. There are no cities, no people living there, and probably nobody owns the land. What I'm thinking is take all of that and go there, deep into the wilderness and build a small house just for me. Then live there for a while.

What was suggested is that this may not be legal, particularly the building a small house part. I would be content with 10-20 square meters, single-story fully-wooden house. I have some background in construction, not much though but I would like to at least attempt to do that.

I would really like to do something like that, but if it's illegal, I definitely do not have the money to buy the land and my whole idea that I had for a couple of years now would pretty much be void and useless.

My question is, is something like that actually legal? Can I do that? I'm not even a citizen of any of those countries, however I am in a country that is a part of the European Union if that matters.

 

[Lacijag1]

I know this guy from youtube, he might be able to give u some useful advises he is a finish bushcrafter. This is his youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAMmNSzm2mjleX_fihtldUw
Contact him.

 

[rorymax]

treecraft,

No matter where you go, all land is owned, it may not be supervised but someone or the the state owns it.

You would have to go somewhere REALLY remote if you were not to attract some attention, so you would have to forget going for supplies or medical help or in fact doing anything that would involve contact with other people.

I would think you need to think this through a little deeper, not wanting to disappoint you but it might be better to consider this a little more.

Good luck, hope your plan wins through.

 

[DurhamBushcrafter]

Treecraft....... I dont wanna pee on ya campfire......but........I think you may need to think this through a LITTLE more....

interesting first post!

Welcome

 

[birchwood]

As the others have said all land is owned by someone. Also the trees you are intending to chop down are a crop that is harvested. I dont think you would be very popular if you tried building a house and living on land that you have no permission on.

 

[forrestdweller]

sounds like an interesting dream- i guess a lot of members of this forum have dreamed about this at some stage...- BUT not only are there legal matters (land ownership/ cutting down trees which are not yours) to consider but also how would you get supplies (""living of the land"" sounds nice in books etc. but in reality you will likely have a hard time!) or what would you do in case of medical emergency?!
the movie/book ""into the wild"" is a good example of what can happen....

i'd suggest going for a few weeks out in summer first, building a temporary camp (tent/tarp) and see if you can handle the conditions and how you cope with being REALLY alone!

 

[DurhamBushcrafter]

sounds like an interesting dream- i guess a lot of members of this forum have dreamed about this at some stage...- BUT not only are there legal matters (land ownership/ cutting down trees which are not yours) to consider but also how would you get supplies (""living of the land"" sounds nice in books etc. but in reality you will likely have a hard time!) or what would you do in case of medical emergency?!
the movie/book ""into the wild"" is a good example of what can happen....

i'd suggest going for a few weeks out in summer first, building a temporary camp (tent/tarp) and see if you can handle the conditions and how you cope with being REALLY alone!

Damn good advice!

 

[treecraft]

I know this guy from youtube, he might be able to give u some useful advises he is a finish bushcrafter. This is his youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAMmNSzm2mjleX_fihtldUw
Contact him.

Thanks, I'll do that.

treecraft,

No matter where you go, all land is owned, it may not be supervised but someone or the the state owns it.

You would have to go somewhere REALLY remote if you were not to attract some attention, so you would have to forget going for supplies or medical help or in fact doing anything that would involve contact with other people.

I would think you need to think this through a little deeper, not wanting to disappoint you but it might be better to consider this a little more.

Good luck, hope your plan wins through.

Treecraft....... I dont wanna pee on ya campfire......but........I think you may need to think this through a LITTLE more....

interesting first post!

Welcome

As the others have said all land is owned by someone. Also the trees you are intending to chop down are a crop that is harvested. I dont think you would be very popular if you tried building a house and living on land that you have no permission on.

sounds like an interesting dream- i guess a lot of members of this forum have dreamed about this at some stage...- BUT not only are there legal matters (land ownership/ cutting down trees which are not yours) to consider but also how would you get supplies (""living of the land"" sounds nice in books etc. but in reality you will likely have a hard time!) or what would you do in case of medical emergency?!
the movie/book ""into the wild"" is a good example of what can happen....

i'd suggest going for a few weeks out in summer first, building a temporary camp (tent/tarp) and see if you can handle the conditions and how you cope with being REALLY alone!

I think I'll just answer to all these posts in one bit longer reply; thanks for comments, everyone!

To the point:

I don't mind not being in contact with people for long periods of time, even now I rarely talk to people compared to how much most socialize, even the introverts. I'm quite resilient to pretty much anything you throw at me, and I'm determined to not give up in situations where some people might say "well, this is too hard, I don't want this anymore." Having said that, even though I am an extrovert, I can do without people for a few weeks without starting to get bit crazy about needing to talk to pretty much anybody and about anything to recharge. So, when that happens, I could go back to civilization for a day or so, I would stack up on supplies for a few more weeks and go back to the wilderness. Supplies being canned food and fresh water. Then I would continue my work on building the small house. I've planned to complete the project within a couple of months at most, since I would be careful due to potential medical emergency. But let's skip on medical emergencies, I doubt any would agree on what I'd have to say in regards of myself in this section.

Basically I can do without people and I would bring supplies like canned food and fresh water to be able to stay there for at least a couple of weeks, probably a few weeks.

As for legal issues, if it is truly illegal to do that, I would presume there are plots of land that is very remote and isn't monitored?

Also, I'm not looking to live completely out from civilization, just off foraging, hunting, etc.. I'm not even sure I wanna do those things, they may be too slow for my fast-paced personality. I do however want some time to think and sort through a lot of stuff, and I would have a home that I wouldn't have to pay for essentially. I also write and do photography, so it would be nice creative environment for me as well.

-

The suggestion about going for a few weeks in the summer occurred to me as well, but that would in the end result in a lot of money going pretty much... Well, nowhere. I would just have to be in the wilderness without a goal. I need a goal. And building a small and very simple/basic house like that would be a great goal that I could go for. That way, I would be occupied and I would get to live like I planned to, and afterwards it would also result in the possibility of actually living there, which I would possibly do for a while. Months or maybe even longer. I don't know.

In other words, what irks me about going for a camping trip that lasts a few weeks is that I'd pay a whole bunch of money to buy the equipment, to travel to Northern Europe, to buy supplies, and I would end up being bored.

-

Right now, in the winter I take very long walks, sometimes every day, taking pictures. I only take them in the winter because where I am, the forests are full of ticks, there's warning signs pretty much everywhere. Northern Europe has way less of them, if any at all if you go little bit further to the north. Besides, we don't really have wide woods, youth has "taken them over" with their drunken parties, and criminals have taken over the forests bit closer to the borders to bring in contraband from pretty much every side of the country.

 

[GGTBod]

I think living in the woods is a dream many on here have toyed with, have you heard of a guy called Nessmuk (George Washington Sears )? He spent huge amounts of time living wild back in the 1800's with nothing but a small pack on his back, his rifle, small axe and knife and his canoe, his books and books about him are a wealth of knowledge.

Rather than carrying water from civilisation every couple of weeks learn about water purification methods as carrying a filter kit with you is very easy lightweight way to turn any freshwater source into perfect drinking water i personally swear by the Lifesaver bottle, also dried food takes up much less space and is a lot less weight to carry than canned goods, i'd get so depressed living on canned food for a week here in the city never mind in the wild, maybe that's just me.

I personally think to do what you suggest without proficient hunting, trapping and foraging skills would be foolhardy at best and at worst suicidal (see Into the Wild as previously mentioned for a better understanding of that)

Ticks are all over Europe

Countries who display active tick bourn encephalitis signs

 

[forrestdweller]

something to add to my last post... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_McCunn

 

[forrestdweller]

As for legal issues, if it is truly illegal to do that, I would presume there are plots of land that is very remote and isn't monitored?

it would be still illegal and there is a chance that someone finds you....

 

[GGTBod]

Christopher McCandless the guy who Into The Wild is based on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

 

[Jack Bounder]

Maybe the best approach would be to try and seek out a (large) land owner and negotiate some sort of payment? Depending on the part of the world, it could be very reasonable?

 

[treecraft]

I think living in the woods is a dream many on here have toyed with, have you heard of a guy called Nessmuk (George Washington Sears )? He spent huge amounts of time living wild back in the 1800's with nothing but a small pack on his back, his rifle, small axe and knife and his canoe, his books and books about him are a wealth of knowledge.

Rather than carrying water from civilisation every couple of weeks learn about water purification methods as carrying a filter kit with you is very easy lightweight way to turn any freshwater source into perfect drinking water i personally swear by the Lifesaver bottle, also dried food takes up much less space and is a lot less weight to carry than canned goods, i'd get so depressed living on canned food for a week here in the city never mind in the wild, maybe that's just me.

I personally think to do what you suggest without proficient hunting, trapping and foraging skills would be foolhardy at best and at worst suicidal (see Into the Wild as previously mentioned for a better understanding of that)

Ticks are all over Europe

Countries who display active tick bourn encephalitis signs

Never heard of him, but thanks for the advice - that sounds like a pretty interesting and useful material.

Yea, dried foods is also good, but some canned foods give you more energy, as well as some other things. Canned food was just one of the things I'd carry there, and I wouldn't be carrying it around if I was building a house, I could stash it - that was the intention, assuming the house plan would go through. I wasn't aware of a water purification system, thanks for the advice. I definitely do need to work out everything I need to buy, but I left that for last because first I need to know if I even can do the house plan, and if not - what can I do, since I'm not interested in long-term hunting, gathering, etc.. For a week or two, that would be interesting, but probably I wouldn't wanna do that alone, since it's more risky and having a partner helps significantly. Also I would be doing more passive and slow work, so I wouldn't get bored with it if I had a partner.

Speaking of canned food - I've been eating worse than canned food for years, I still do today. I don't have much money. Eating canned food daily for me would be the equivalent of a good restaurant for you, probably.

Again, I'm unlikely to hunt, forage and trap. I was planning to bring my own supplies, enough to last me for a while so that I could work on the house without coming back to the civilization for a while. When I'd run out, I'd go back to the civilization.

What I want to do is to get out of where I am right now, live somewhere else and be active about it. So I figured going to Northern Europe - a place that I always wanted to go to - and being in nature - something that I always been attracted to - would be a good idea. To keep myself busy and essentially have something out of spending all that money, building a house sounds like a good idea. I live in 16 square meters plot right now, my room is 11 square meters, the rest is bathroom and all. So a 10-20 square meters house would still be better than it is here now essentially. Also, I have no hot water and no heating right now either. So that would be the same in regards of that. Except for electricity and technology.

Anyway, that is the best idea I came up with so far, I'm unable to come up with a different idea that would provide me with getting out of this country, preferably going to Northern Europe, and living there; if in nature - doing something active and fast-paced.

I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just trying to explain my point of view, since it seemed that you (and seems that most who commented) had a bit different idea about the details of what I wanna do, or rather why. I do appreciate the posts.

Speaking of encephalitis, there's vaccine for that. Check Lyme's disease instead - there's no vaccine for that one.

something to add to my last post... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_McCunn

Well I wouldn't be going 200 miles away from civilization. I was thinking more in terms of a day of walking away. Maybe two or three at most.

it would be still illegal and there is a chance that someone finds you....

I don't care if it's legal or not as long as I could get away with it, so I suppose we should shift the discussion this way: would anybody truly go to the far wilderness, and if they would - would they truly care about some strange guy building a small house?

Christopher McCandless the guy who Into The Wild is based on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

Thanks for the link. Will read now.

Maybe the best approach would be to try and seek out a (large) land owner and negotiate some sort of payment? Depending on the part of the world, it could be very reasonable?

At least at the moment that wouldn't work, you should read my reply to forrestdweller as to why. It is, however, a really good idea in general for someone who may want something like this.

 

[DurhamBushcrafter]

To the OP..why not just buy a van..and boondock? you are mobile.......you can get out of the way.....park up, immobilize van........toddle off for a day or 16.....

 

[ammo]

If you get bored after a few weeks camping. Will the same not happen, after months in isolation?
Good luck what ever you do.

 

[Bishop]

Two week solo trip overland, no-resupply (no hunting-trapping-fishing or foraging), bowsaw, big axe plus sharpening gear and say 30ft of heavy duty rope...
Anybody here care to give a ballpark figure for the pack weight and how far they could carry it every day. It may help pull a dream into sharper reality.

 

[GGTBod]

Well starting with just your water at 3ltr per day there is 42 kilo (even at 2ltr per day min recommended liquid intake you are talking 28 kilo) it's already heavier than any rucksack i'd wanna carry for a long time, your large axe is easy 2-3 kilo, bowsaw another 1-2 kilo, sleeping kit 2 kilo min (sleeping bag, bivvi and mat), I can't imagine the weight of tinned food for 2 weeks i wouldn't even wanna carry that back from the supermarket, you're gonna want a lot of food and water as building a wood structure is no kind of light labour and carrying all your kit is no easy chore either so we are talking easy 3-4000 kcals per day needed minimum, if it's cold even more.

When out living wild for 2-3 weeks i take around 5-7 kilo of dried food and 1 kilo of that is dried meats like biltong/salted pork or regular beef jerky, this is when i know i am gonna be able to get my hands on plenty of fish and the hope of the odd small game like rabbits, if these aren't a sure thing and i am living on just the food i take then it is easy 10 kilo of dried foods and 3 kilo of that is dried meats (the rest is pasta, rice, muesli, couscous, freeze dried vegetables, stock cubes, fruit jerky, nuts and raisins and other dried fruits) and that is just for 2-3 weeks swanning around a couple of Scottish lochs mid summer taking it easy, i don't carry any water except my most recently filtered litre and my rucksack still easy ends up around 20 kilo as i am not carrying an axe or bowsaw.

For 2 weeks you're gonna want changes of clothing??
Cooking kit?
Possibles??
Personally i'd easy go through a kilo of teabags in 2 weeks A kilo of muesli and a kilo min of dried milk to go with both.
Rucksack is gonna be about 2 kilo
However much bogroll for 2 weeks + your toilet kit and washkit??
Knife and medkit?

Am i missing anything? Anyone adding this up?

Suppose you could lighten the load with a titanium spork i'm making jokes here but seriously what you are suggesting is no easy feat even to people with a good base of skillsets suitable for the task

 

[nic a char]

When out and about, even in very remote areas, I often see evidence of semi-permanent shelters - they REALLY stick out. So if I'm staying for a while, I adapt/make a hidden shelter, dugout, cave, or tree-house concealed in eg a holly tree - thick foliage & evergreen.

 

[Bishop]

Food 12 kg Dry food for 14 days based on Paul Kirtley's excellent blog post here [I'd double the amount of tea and coffe as well ]
Axe 3 kg
Bowsaw 1 kg being generous ... blade only construct frame for it onsite
Sleep System 2 kg do-able but would require an expensive down bag (my synthetic winter bag plus Gortex bivvy is just under 3kg but only good down to -5C)
Tarp/BASHA 1 kg as you need some cover till a more permanant shelter is ready, can double as hammock

Backpack 3 kg Vulcan III big enough for all the gear.

At this point you're carrying 22kg or just short of 50lbs and will have to learn how to walk all over again.
Then there's this lot...

Knife + multitool
Flashlight + spare batteries
Cordage/Rope
Spare clothing - it's always heavier than you think
Cooking pot(s) + drinking mug
Backup stove (gas/meths/hexi) + Fuel for a couple of days. Optional but often a real lifesaver.
Water bottle(s) 3-4 litres to be carried unless following a stream
Hygiene kit - Crotch rot kills so wash your balls or scratch them off it's your choice.
First aid kit - carrying this much gear you will get blisters
Fire Stating Kit
camera gear - plus charger if it's a digital camera