Little test...
- Thread starter CaptJack
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Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
mark a. said:
Almost none of the possible answers for any of the questions jibbed with what I believe (croft [whatever that is] in the highlands did sound good). Couldn't even get through it - with any honesty.
Quote from a city atheist - out on a canoe trip: "If I had to look at this all the time - I'd have to rethink my views on a Creator."
PG
One Haymaker here, though t was a touch decision between sailing and being in the highlands for a holiday (mmmm so close). 
If anything, my connection with nature ( & people) gives me even more reason to regard God as a popular myth.
andyn
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apologies for any unwanted stirring!
I only want people to ask questions of their faith, and consider the evidence in a logical manner.
I only want people to ask questions of their faith, and consider the evidence in a logical manner.
CaptJack said:
Me too.It was a toss up with the Highlands but the Tall ship couldn't be resisted.
Another Hardhat here and proud of it.
"You are an atheist, a rationalist, a believer in the triumph of science and of reason over libido. You cant stand mumbo jumbo, ritual, spiritual nonsense of any kind, and you refuse to allow for these longings in others."
Sounds about right.
"You are an atheist, a rationalist, a believer in the triumph of science and of reason over libido. You cant stand mumbo jumbo, ritual, spiritual nonsense of any kind, and you refuse to allow for these longings in others."
Sounds about right.
CaptJack said:
Evidence?
For me there's enough evidence from the past decades that materialism just doesn't work.
I think there has to be a clear distinction between believing in a book from a church institution full of dogma's (bible, koran, .. ) and spirituality which is more based on your own experience like animism, shamanism, ... Trough meditation (which can be done in many different ways..) it's possible to get in contact with the spirits or the divine and see/feel for yourself. Instead of demanding blind faith in a book written by someone else.
Although I think Jesus was a great healer and was very wise. But Paulus, the catholic church, etc probably made something totally different from his teachings. ( http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm )
When the conquistadores with their missionaries demanded an indian leader to become christian he held the bible to his ear and listened. After a minute he threw the book on the ground and said: "What kind of god is this that he doesn't even speak?".
It's no wonder that Nietzsche said that God was dead. I think we need a living religion (or spirituality..). For me that means no holy books, nor conservative institutions of power..
I respect other points of view ofcourse
I was a Hairshirt. I don't agree with the text though
:"A compost heap" Why would I.. I just spread my decomposing garbage everywhere around.
"prove that it’s possible to lead a good and moral life without religion" Makes no sense.. I don't like the church institution (nor the state or corporation) but spirituality is important as an "animist".
" invest in ethical schemes" I have nothing to invest...
" the list of countries you won’t buy from is longer than the washing line for your baby’s towelling nappies." More like the list of corporations.. Still I know when I see a good deal. I think it's more important to only take what you need.
"never touch drugs" Yea right, I'm not that strict
"You never waste money" Never is a bit exaggerated isn't it.
I am with Gunnix on this one, came out as a hairshirt and nearly all the profile is totally rubbish.
In some ways I am closer to a hardhat, in others a handholder, however I always find that situations are the things that spur reactions and there is too much generalisation in the way it is put together.
Pierre mentioned that there were a number of answers and not always any of them fit that which he would do, I chose from the best of a bad bunch, but found it awkward to get through honestly, the answers I gave were the ones that I would give if I absolutely had to and no other reason.
In some ways I am closer to a hardhat, in others a handholder, however I always find that situations are the things that spur reactions and there is too much generalisation in the way it is put together.
Pierre mentioned that there were a number of answers and not always any of them fit that which he would do, I chose from the best of a bad bunch, but found it awkward to get through honestly, the answers I gave were the ones that I would give if I absolutely had to and no other reason.
Guys is it supposed to be accurate? I thought it was a joke i mean the cartoons were comic enough!
I agree in the sense that people need not put all of their faith in somone or something else in order to live their lives happily. On the other hand i think civilisation is healthier and more stable with a cross-section of faiths to cater for different people's ways of life. There will always be some tension between them (not impossible to remedy maybe, though pretty much inevitable anyway) but surely not as much as there would be if everyone was made to have, or fooled into having similar views?
I agree in the sense that people need not put all of their faith in somone or something else in order to live their lives happily. On the other hand i think civilisation is healthier and more stable with a cross-section of faiths to cater for different people's ways of life. There will always be some tension between them (not impossible to remedy maybe, though pretty much inevitable anyway) but surely not as much as there would be if everyone was made to have, or fooled into having similar views?
bushtuckerman said:
I respect all true beliefs honestly held whilst having no formal belief of my own.
Man has a need to believe in something;every culture that has ever existed had a belief structure of one kind or another.
It saddens me deeply that there is conflict between different religions and even factions of the same religion, which results in conflict and violence.
To me it seems pointless and pathetic.
Still mankind never did need an excuse to kill and destroy.
I remember reading something a while back, a review or something of this american guy's book, where he suggeted man had a need for conflict...now, defeatest as it may be, i don't think it is totally devoid of truth. If everyone (hypothetically but) truly believed in Buddhism then there wouldn't be this specific problem, since the search for enlightenment involves allowing the idea of 'self' to be released, and one way or another conflict comes back to the 'need' for people to make known their identity, and to preseve the idea of self. So in terms of identity it seems conflict IS needed. How this conflict is played out is up to us, it doesn't necessarily have to be physical. But for as long as people want to make themselves known to others they will encounter conflict, and it's human instinct, it means that the fittest survive. If you want to take the Buddhism route then maybe you can achieve happiness without conflict.
Precisely. The process of changing one's habits needs the excuse, or reason or whatever you want to call it.
I just want to add that anyone can meditate, it is not a mark of faith or anything else, it is a biological process, and i believe(!) it works a bit like hypnotism.
ian
BorderRiver said:
Precisely. The process of changing one's habits needs the excuse, or reason or whatever you want to call it.
I just want to add that anyone can meditate, it is not a mark of faith or anything else, it is a biological process, and i believe(!) it works a bit like hypnotism.
ian
I'd even say that trance (which is the goal of meditation) can be achieved in many different ways. The basic thing needed is probably rythm.
You can sit and breath rythmically, you can walk, cycle rythmically, you can drum, rattle, dance, work... Rythm makes things more joyfully, and if you do well you might even get into another state of conciousness seeing visions, spirits etc
As for religions causing conflict. I think the cultural differences between people are mostly just used as an excuse, while the cause is probably something more material in the line of a food or water shortage many times caused by overpopulation. But there can be so many reasons
And the local food or water shortage can be well caused by a cultural difference (the others don't have a shortage with the same amount and quality of land..) because a group has believes making it possible to polute the environment... It's a complex web of (mental, spiritual, and material) interactions which causes conflicts (like war).
You can sit and breath rythmically, you can walk, cycle rythmically, you can drum, rattle, dance, work... Rythm makes things more joyfully, and if you do well you might even get into another state of conciousness seeing visions, spirits etc
As for religions causing conflict. I think the cultural differences between people are mostly just used as an excuse, while the cause is probably something more material in the line of a food or water shortage many times caused by overpopulation. But there can be so many reasons
And the local food or water shortage can be well caused by a cultural difference (the others don't have a shortage with the same amount and quality of land..) because a group has believes making it possible to polute the environment... It's a complex web of (mental, spiritual, and material) interactions which causes conflicts (like war).
I think that most people realise the value of working together, that it is more efficient and in the case of food and water can help everyone equally. But people don't like to share despite this, because they have themselves to protect, do not not think outside preserving the self (a mother may feel very protective of her children, but probably won't feel the same affection towards other people's children), despite there being ways of working together effectively. That is why i think it always boils down to this concept, whether overpopulation, food shortage, or difference in quality of life be the catalyst or not. There is an instinct to favour your genetics over someone elses, and it takes training of the mind to override that instinct and make something else more important than that.
After reading through the questions, I decided that I wouldn't be able to answer many of them, so I answered those that I could and was proclaimed to be a "haymaker". Which included being an atheist, which was the reason I couldn't answer the questions, as they didn't deal with my true spirituality. So, by avoiding the subject all together, I became what I am not. Interesting.
