Lingo Differnces

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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Which culturally must be similar to Arab countries where they historically consider the left hand to be used for self sanitation and so not used for tasks like eating and greating. Which must make being a Boy Scout difficult in Arabia. :)
GB

What's the relationship to Boy Scouts?
 

pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
69
Fife
;) I love it! Not having looked in for a while, this thread reminds me why I joined the forum in the first place and is a great welcome back.

I haven't read the whole thread, but will when I get the chance this evening.

Laughed out loud at your biblical post, Goatboy, even though a bit doric-centric! There again, if the lawyer who translated the bible into the doric had his practice somewhere like Cothal-Fintray, he probably had plenty time on his hands.

Toddy, one of your posts considers the words "weans" and "bairns"
"... Bairn meant a pre pubertal child of either sex. Used to matter more because they were under the age of majority and were not legally bound in some matters.
The names are just used for children now."

... of interest to me right now, as I'm studying documents relating to C16 Scottish/English Borders -well, actually undertaking a work displacement activity at this very moment- where use of the word "bairn" has drawn my attention, as used in the likes of "Kinmont's Bairns", "Hobbie Noble's Bairns", etc.

These weren't bairns in the way we'd understand the term, and there may be a purposeful sense of the grotesque at play here, as this is use of language by those who brought the terms "gang", "hot-pursuit", "blackmail" and "kidnap" into the English language [along with the wonderfully descriptive word "nutshawed" for the treatment of a stud bull too dangerous to steal], ran protection rackets on a scale that would shock Al Capone, and referred to the then living descendant of Sir Henry Percy as... wait for it... "Cauldspur" [who "Little Jockie Elliot gaed a clank atop the stoup t'wald gar his erse atwust"]!

These "bairns", had you caught sight of them bearing down on your house before your head had time to clear of sleep, was a sight you probably wouldn't forget in a hurry... if you survived to remember it, as they were a just a tad hyperactive!

Your definition of "bairn", "because they were under the age of majority and were not legally bound in some matters." is food for thought, as it brings to mind James VI forcing the Border Lairds to swear to keep the peace on behalf of their families, tenants, servants, and those under their protection, and accept liability if they failed to do so. It couldn't have been an easy task for lairds like Sir James Johnstone, as when you look at the Annandale village of Wamphray in 1590 when James Johnstone was West March Warden, now a scatter of farm hooses and a Post Office [closed], there resided there The Gang o' Wamphrey, The Auld Gang o' Wamphray, Kirkhill's Bairns and The Lads o' Wamphray, all of which comprised of Johnstones.

It sheds an entirely different light when you realise the cynicism by which the most notorious outlaws of their day, seemingly in competition for the post of Public Enemy No. 1, turned around the concept of patriarchal dependency and that of being legally responsibile.

Ill Willed Sandy, Ill Will Elliot, Nebless Clemmie Croser, Archie "Fire-the-braes" Armstrong, The Laird's Bairns of Graham of Netherbie, and someone known only as No Guid Priest all had their "Bairns", as did Kinmont Willie Armstrong... and The Bairn's Bairns may have been the gang belonging to Kinmont's son, Jock.

A man's greatest fear though, would probably come in the form of Davy the Lady, or another notorious outlaw known as Buggerback!
 

skate

Nomad
Apr 13, 2010
260
0
East Devon
I once read that there is one word that is pronounced the same in every single language! Can you guess what it is? Will reveal it later unless someone gets it right.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,979
4,625
S. Lanarkshire
You're right Pango, 'Bairns' was used in much the same way as Clan. Not Clan as it's now thought, but Clan as in gang from the same area, or following one idea/leader kind of thing.
It's still used in that sense for the supporters of one of the football teams...Falkirk.

Like Childe....Childe Arthur for instance.....the detail of meanings changes with time, while retaining some core relevance :)

Mamma is in one form or other recognisable over much of the world. From Scotland to Japan, from India to the Inuit (aama). Is this the word you meant skate ? ma?

cheers,
Toddy
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,135
2,872
66
Pembrokeshire
I once read that there is one word that is pronounced the same in every single language! Can you guess what it is? Will reveal it later unless someone gets it right.
Kodak ... a name designed by Eastman to be pronounced the same world wide. They failed as there are one or two countries that it comes out slightly different .. I think one is Finland but I could be wrong...
 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dirt (noun)15th century. metathesis of Middle English drit, drytt "mud, dirt, dung" (c.1300), from Old Norse drit, cognate with Old English dritan "to void excrement," from Proto-Germanic *dritanan (cf. Dutch drijten, Old High German trizan).

Used abusively of persons from c.1300. Meaning "gossip" first attested 1926 (in Hemingway); dirt bike is 1960s. Dirt-cheap is from 1821. Dirt road attested by 1852.

thanks for that. The urdu word is probably a coincidence.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Boys is also an equivalent of Bairns, see Skippons brave Boys of the English Civil War.
 

Laurentius

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 13, 2009
2,429
619
Knowhere
You're right Pango, 'Bairns' was used in much the same way as Clan. Not Clan as it's now thought, but Clan as in gang from the same area, or following one idea/leader kind of thing.
It's still used in that sense for the supporters of one of the football teams...Falkirk.

Like Childe....Childe Arthur for instance.....the detail of meanings changes with time, while retaining some core relevance :)

Mamma is in one form or other recognisable over much of the world. From Scotland to Japan, from India to the Inuit (aama). Is this the word you meant skate ? ma?

cheers,
Toddy

Not to mention the Children of the Mist, the Clan Gregor.
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
I once read that there is one word that is pronounced the same in every single language! Can you guess what it is? Will reveal it later unless someone gets it right.

It is funny listening to the gaelic news up here in sunny Scotland, they'll be prattling on "na horsht wugahumpftamuf helicopter wahennoo North Sea Oil Rig beg mahoonie" and you think. No come on get your own words for these things, don't try to slip them in or give a funny pronounciation and hope no one notices.

Another thing if you go onto BBC Iplayer and into the regions bit, Ireland and Wales have informative programs mainly in English that we can all enjoy and learn a little of their cultural quircks and differences. Scotland, well unless it's Neil Oliver it's going to be in heedrum-hodrum gaelic of which only 2% of the population have any idea what it's about and they're all tucked away in Highland and Argyle and Bute. This compared to the 20 odd percent of the population for Welsh speakers and virtually no programing.
 
It is funny listening to the gaelic news up here in sunny Scotland, they'll be prattling on "na horsht wugahumpftamuf helicopter wahennoo North Sea Oil Rig beg mahoonie" and you think. No come on get your own words for these things, don't try to slip them in or give a funny pronounciation and hope no one notices.

Another thing if you go onto BBC Iplayer and into the regions bit, Ireland and Wales have informative programs mainly in English that we can all enjoy and learn a little of their cultural quircks and differences. Scotland, well unless it's Neil Oliver it's going to be in heedrum-hodrum gaelic of which only 2% of the population have any idea what it's about and they're all tucked away in Highland and Argyle and Bute. This compared to the 20 odd percent of the population for Welsh speakers and virtually no programing.

Every language absorbs words from different ones into the vocabulary. English is probably the best example of them all. I'll bet the French and Italians cringe at the way their borrowed words are pronounced in English.

Regarding the 2% of speakers. That is a sad result of the ethnic cleansing carried out in Scotland in the form of the clearances and the governing from far away and disconnected westminster. Kids were regularly beaten in schools in Scotland for speaking Gaelic. More recently with a local enlightened devolved government more Gaelic schools both primary and secondary are opening and the culture rich Gaelic language is making a resurgence.

Cheerie an drasta

Windy
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
Every language absorbs words from different ones into the vocabulary. English is probably the best example of them all. I'll bet the French and Italians cringe at the way their borrowed words are pronounced in English.

Regarding the 2% of speakers. That is a sad result of the ethnic cleansing carried out in Scotland in the form of the clearances and the governing from far away and disconnected westminster. Kids were regularly beaten in schools in Scotland for speaking Gaelic. More recently with a local enlightened devolved government more Gaelic schools both primary and secondary are opening and the culture rich Gaelic language is making a resurgence.

Cheerie an drasta

Windy

Sorry if you took offence Windy, I was having some fun in the spirit of the thread, I actually love that languages mix and reform. (As you may see from some of my posts). It's like the way us Brits take the mickey out of the yanks for their "murdering" of the English language. If you actually look a lot of their grammar is actually "more" correct compared to ours if you go back a couple of hundred years. (The spelling is just bloody-mindedness in not wanting to seem to Anglo).

As to the percentage thing yes it's sad that we've lost the Gàidhealtachd, though it was probably never Scotland wide. And again I just thought it strange that BBC Scotland regional is popping out programs that most folk don't understand "Eorpa" and "River City" being two of them. :) Where as Wales and Ireland with a higher proportion have less own language programing?

I do think teaching languages at an early age is beneficial, used to know the Director of the Gaelic language centre in Inverness when they were starting to expand schools and my mates daughter went to a bilingual school. It accelerates the whole learning process.

Here's a wee teachers story you may enjoy: -

A PT History and a PT Mod Studies in a well-known Southside Secondary had a habit of prattling on in pigeon Gaelic, much to the annoyance of a lot of the staff because they didn't understand them. Nearing the end of the 1970s, the 2 PTs are sitting in the newly acquired communal staff room (the young ones didn't want the Ladies and Gents staffroom idea any longer, as you couldn't eye up the talent), when in walks a new face.

After a courteous smile and nod towards the two lads, she makes for the urn and begins making herself her morning interval cuppa. The 2 PTs look at each other and they both stare at the new "figure" in the room.

In his best Gaelic, one PT says "Nice ****" (loosely translated) to which his pal agrees. In a beautiful Island lilt the girl replies:

"Thanks very much for the compliment boys. I'm Rhoda McLeod, the new Gaelic student. I start my teaching practice today. And you are....?"

Rhoda loves telling that story, much to their eternal embarrassment.

Rhoda of course, as some may know, went on to greater things on the telly, with programmes such as Dotaman and a teach yourself Gaelic programme.

Cheers GB.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Welsh and Gaelic have probably been spoken more or less where they are spoken now for the last 2,000 years and not much further into their respective hinterlands. When was there any record of Lowlanders speaking anything but Lallans? I tend to subscribe to the heretical idea that proto-English was spoken pre-Roman period in Eastern England and lowland Scotland.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,135
2,872
66
Pembrokeshire
Spoken Welsh is more common now than it was 30 years ago and it is hard to get a job (in West Wales at least) if you do not speak Welsh to some degree!
 

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