Licensing for Knife Sellers or Importers

[Chris]

The main issue with this is that they are not banning a specific item, they are banning a shape, or set of innate physical properties.

You cannot ban things with the properties of ‘pointy’ or ‘sharp’, these can be made easily out of any kind of rigid material. Glass, sticks, stones, plastic, blunt metal objects and so on and so forth.

To make a firearm and ammo you need specialist tools, specific materials and controllable substances.

To make a knife or stabbing implement you just need anything that is rigid and something to scrape it on to make it sharp, such as the floor or a rock. Or just break something that isn’t sharp to give a sharp broken edge.

 

[slaine_23]

I would look at a sharpened bikespoke with a handle of jesustape.

I’ve seen people take a spoke from a binned umbrella, sharpen it by drawing it along the pavement and using it as a very unpleasant improvised rapier.

 

[Nice65]

Yes, I fully expect that if this bonkers idea goes through, selling grandad's old folding pocket knife to a mate of a few quid

Can always gift a knife. The old tradition is a knife given severs ties, so a silver coin must change hands to preserve the friendship. Not that it's relevant, but it's something I always do, or ask for.

Or, do like some of the Turkey Tail mushroom tincture makers are doing and give it away free with any other purchase (at a suitably inflated price)

I haven't read the proposal yet, but so far I see it as aimed at suppliers, and unfortunately makers, rather than us lot on the forums and Facebook groups. Who exactly is going to endeavor to find out who Nice65 and GreyCat are because one sold the other a knife? There are data protection laws to get around just to find our emails that are connected to this site, then our addresses, and should it really come to it, to prove there was a sale.

 

[slowworm]

I haven't read the proposal yet, but so far I see it as aimed at suppliers, and unfortunately makers, rather than us lot on the forums and Facebook groups.

It's worth a read through. It specifically mentions private and second hand sellers as being covered to avoid a 'gap in the law', I can't see them allowing gifting even if it is genuine.

I would expect many people to ignore the law or be unaware of it but those with something to loose like FAC holders, DBS checked people etc would obey.

There's also statements such as 'Unregistered selling of knives is treated more seriously than possession offences' that suggest they will pick on a few cases to make examples.

 

[hughtrimble]

Can always gift a knife. The old tradition is a knife given severs ties, so a silver coin must change hands to preserve the friendship. Not that it's relevant, but it's something I always do, or ask for.

Or, do like some of the Turkey Tail mushroom tincture makers are doing and give it away free with any other purchase (at a suitably inflated price)

I haven't read the proposal yet, but so far I see it as aimed at suppliers, and unfortunately makers, rather than us lot on the forums and Facebook groups. Who exactly is going to endeavor to find out who Nice65 and GreyCat are because one sold the other a knife? There are data protection laws to get around just to find our emails that are connected to this site, then our addresses, and should it really come to it, to prove there was a sale.

Your optimism is impressive on this!

If it comes in, it will kill off the forum sales completely though. Forums aren't going to want to provide the platform for sharps selling unless there are licence checks done somehow.

There's also statements such as 'Unregistered selling of knives is treated more seriously than possession offences' that suggest they will pick on a few cases to make examples.

I had not seen that. How absurd.

 

[slaine_23]

What stats are there on the types of weapons used in attacks? Numbers of attacks with machetes, kitchen knives, Stanley blades, other tools. Is a chisel a knife. A wood plane?
Honestly, the stupidity of govts trying to legislate to fix perceived problems rather than aim to fix the actual problem is nuts.

 

[Nice65]

If it comes in, it will kill off the forum sales completely though. Forums aren't going to want to provide the platform for sharps selling unless there are licence checks done somehow.

This forum doesn’t do age checks, it simply points out the law and it’s up to the seller to check age. The onus of a sale being made by an unlicensed seller isn’t BCUK’s responsibility, it won’t suffer any legal penalty.

 

[Kiri]

The onus of a sale being made by an unlicensed seller isn’t BCUK’s responsibility, it won’t suffer any legal penalty.

I would be willing to bet, that if this licensing comes in to force, they will pass a law saying that any online platform facilitating a knife sale will have a legal duty to check that the seller is licensed (and that an offence will be committed by the owner of the platform if they don’t.) You only need to look at some of the content of the Online Safety Act and current Crime and Policing Bill to see the direction of travel on this.

This consultation stems from recommendations in this report in to online knife sales. Although these types of docs are lengthy and detailed (and therefore quite a tedious read) , it’s well worth reading the whole thing to fully appreciate the thoughts and attitudes behind it. There are a lot of other recommendations beyond licensing as well, watch this space!)

Independent end-to-end review of online knife sales (accessible)

www.gov.uk

 

[Kiri]

It’s also worth reading this, published alongside the consultation, to understand where they are going with this. The “Theory of Change” bit is interesting.

Knife licensing consultation: options assessment (accessible)

www.gov.uk

 

[demographic]

Can't be a consultation, a consultation is when they actually listen to the interested parties.

 

[Steve27752]

Another way to infringe on our freedom.

 

[Kiri]

The consultation ends next week Tuesday 24/02. Please take part if you haven’t already.

You can respond online in a few minutes using the link on this page:

Licensing for knife sales

We are seeking views on our proposals to introduce a licensing system for sellers and importers of knives and bladed articles.

www.gov.uk

 

[chimpy leon]

A violent criminal willing to stab someone isn’t going to be dissuaded by a law put in place by a Westminster, box-ticking, invertabrate - a “person” who doesn’t really care because it doesn’t effect them in their insulated community and just wants the credit doing something, no matter how poorly thought out and administered.

What we need is More coppers on the beat, more random stop and searches and forgo political correctness; Look at the statistics - search according to who is doing what.

 

[Chris]

Look at the statistics - search according to who is doing what.

I'm not sure I understand this bit, what do you mean?

 

[chimpy leon]

I'm not sure I understand this bit, what do you mean?

It means look at the fact and figures and apply common sense and logic.

 

[Chris]

It means look at the fact and figures and apply common sense and logic.

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure which facts and figures you're talking about.

 

[chimpy leon]

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure which facts and figures you're talking about.

Everything you need to enlighten yourself is readily available elsewhere.

 

[Chris]

Everything you need to enlighten yourself it readily available elsewhere.

Just not from you, I guess? I wonder why that might be.

 

[chimpy leon]

Just not from you, I guess? I wonder why that might be.

…Guess and wonder all you like.

 

[Broch]

I'm sure what CL wants to imply is there is a large difference between ethnic groups and knife crime. Actually, when you look deeply, normalise the data, remove bias, prejudice and uncertainty, take into account geographical dispersal etc. the figures are not significantly different. On top of that, there are other violent crimes that swing the opposite way.