Legalities fo Fishing rods, handlines etc

[knifefan]

How about a stick for a pole, how do you feel about that?

I think in a survival situation you would have a number of lines left overnight and you wouldn't bother trying to land the fish alive. You could leave it to tire itself out, but I've not seen anglers watch there rods twitch for 10 seconds without attending to them. If you are aware of a bite I think you have to see to it as again the rules seem to stipulate all rods must be attended at all times.

It's NOT how "I FEEL" but how the EA bailiff would interpret the use of a stick - If you are willing to give it a try, by all means do it and risk your day in court What I DO feel strongly about is inept anglers who are not concerned about the welfare of the fish. Any set up (which includes rods and poles) which is set up without a basic knowledge of fishing risks a fish being damaged or tethered which would end in the death of the fish!!

Quite right, rods must be attended at all times - it's fine discussing a survival situation and I'm sure we all agree we would obtain food by any means available. however, that does not mean we can go out and practice it here in the UK.

 

[petrochemicals]

Quite right, rods must be attended at all times - it's fine discussing a survival situation and I'm sure we all agree we would obtain food by any means available. however, that does not mean we can go out and practice it here in the UK.

Yup, sorry, as you say this isn't a thread about survival, but about legalities of leisure angling in the UK with a licence and landowners permission.

I suspect the eating of the fish is what the outcome will be in bushcraft fishing. But tethering of the fish (there are probably specific rules concerning hooked fish and responsibilities in the event of), or harm and unecesarry suffering through incorrect eqiupment of anysort is what the rules are there to protect the fishing stock from, and some stocks being significantly more lucrative than others, primarily the large prize fish, they like to be able to protect the fish stocks with many many limitations. That being that, a hand reel could obviously be used in an acceptable way on small fish. There are a few contradictions in the tackle rules I have always thought if the welfare of the fish is paramount in the formulation of the rules, if you are using a certain type of tackle to fish for the smaller fish, should this tackle not be of good enough grade to land the largest fish possible from that river, not just the species you are fishing for. You can fish for small fish even with a rod, problem is you can't make sure the large fish do not bite.

As for a home made(or field made diy) pole rod, I wouldn't mind having a go but I should think that your tackle shall first have to stay within the rules(and there are a few of those), and as for the rod pole it would probably have to have a certain flex as you say, it would probably have to be a certain length, longer than a basic rod and reel, the line would have to be secured so it would not in anyway break or become loose, so I reccon at the pole end you would need at least some sort of shock absorbing elastic stuff as the pole would probably not be flexible enough to pass as a rod pole.

Edit: also found these statements;

From The Cambridge English dictionary‎

"angling;noun
 
‎the sport of trying to catch fish with a rod,line (= plastic thread),
And hook (= curvedpiece of wire)"

‎Whilst according to wikipedia
‎
"Angling
‎
‎Angling is a method of fishing ‎by means of an "angle" (fish hook)"
‎
So I thought the Internet was full of‎;

"supposition

‎NOUN
a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis:‎"

 

[mountainm]

Seriously boatman. It's called a rod licence. You really want them to list everything it's illegal to fish with instead of the one thing it is legal to use?

It is illegal to fish with...
A cricket bat.
A tennis racket
Dynamite
A hand line
Etc.

 

[Robbi]

You're feeding the troll Mike, ignore him.

 

[boatman]

Always a contrary point of view is called trolling, explosives for fishing are named as illegal. A line tied to a cricket bat would be a rod but hitting fish with a club is specified as illegal but a handline is not so specified. If it is then the regulations should be amended. A statement by an EA employee is not the law.

 

[Goatboy]

The law states what you can use rather than what you cant for good reason. Human kind is fairly inventive and tools change over time. It would be nigh on impossible to list chapter and verse what one cannot use. Though some deffinate no-nos will be included. Otherwise it would have to state stupid stuff like having a trained monkey tied to the arm of a JCB. It's no point coming up with odd ideas like a truculant toddler asking "Why?" every two seconds. Laws take long enough to pass and are expensive to table as it is.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[petrochemicals]

It does not state pole with no reel, but they are used, but yet cormorants are not?

I should say it's a grey area, depending on the fish avaliable, for example,

http://www.fisharound.net/news/news/687/anglers-fined-for-fishing-illegally-with-unattended-rods

In which is stated "immediate physical control" which I do not think you could do with a hand line reel with big fish. They where prosecuted for that, not failing to have a licence.

 

[boatman]

Environment Agency enforcement officers are running a campaign to crack down on illegal fishing.
The officers were on routine patrols when they found anglers fishing without rod license. All three of them were found unable to attend to their rods in case they were to hook a fish and also, two of them refused to give their addresses to officers. Leaving a rod unattended is an offence designed to protect the health of fish.

No licence and rods unattended was the offence. What else would you be doing with a handline than being in immediate physical control?

Again, the law does state what you cannot use else why do they bother to specify spears etc?

 

[Toddy]

For pity's sake, get a grip.

It's black and white. If you cannot get a licence for it, then it's illegal.
All of the rest is extraneous.

That's it.

Try using any of the rest and you are letting yourself in for being prosecuted or fined.
No get out clause, no clever loopholes, no working around it…it simply says that if it's not licensed then it's illegal. Not the other way around.

And at this point, with my Modding Hat firmly on…."The forum will neither encourage or condone illegal activity"

Pretty please give the Mods a break ?

M

 

[Mesquite]

It doesn't state you can't fish using explosives either...

As for spears that's because you can use spears in tidal waters so they put that in so people understand the distinction.

 

[MCQbushcraft]

I've had a good read through and also read the reply from the EA.
I will most likely take the video down. Make another one some day with a small rod.
For those who implicate that I'm deliberately showing illegal methods of fishing on the channel, this is not the case nor my intention, I do my very best and invest hours of my time and money into making videos simply to share, inspire and educate.
I work with a broad range of people who specialize in different areas of conservation, some very senior and you would be surprised at how many think that this is legal.
Anyway, all sorted and thank you for the kind comments about the channel and the advise over all of this.
Mike

 

[Toddy]

Mike, please don't take it to heart. Your channel has had nothing but glowing reviews from members.
To a large extent bushcraft is a practical hands on skillset. We know we can't use some of it here in the UK, but we're a want to know how group of people, and you answered the how

The EA were both courteous and helpful as they gave me information, I will happily pass on their contacts if you want them.

atb,
Toddy

 

[peaks]

Mike,
Your effort and motivation are well respected by an awful of people - on and off this forum.

I'm sure that the vast majority absolutely do not think that you are deliberately showing illegal practices (illegal in the UK that is). People forget that the internet is global.....

Keep up the good work - you inspire a huge amount of people with your skills, hard work and willingness to share.

 

[petrochemicals]

Yup, you are not the only one who may fall foul of the law, afterall it's very complicated. Prosecuted on a bylaw ;
http://herefordtimes.com/news/10117..._in_court_for_illegally_fishing_on_River_Wye/

 

[mrcharly]

Well I've learned something; I thought owning riparian rights meant you didn't need a licence. Seems I was wrong (but then I've never fished in my life).

 

[boatman]

[h=1]In case there was any doubt that there is a list of prohibited methods

Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975[/h][h=1]1975 CHAPTER 51[/h]An Act to consolidate the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1923 and certain other enactments relating to salmon and freshwater fisheries, and to repeal certain obsolete enactments relating to such fisheries.

[1st August 1975]​

​

[h=2]

Part IProhibition of Certain Modes of Taking or Destroying Fish, etc.​

[/h][h=3]1Prohibited implements.[/h]

(1)​

Subject to subsection (4) below, no person shall—

(a)​

use any of the following instruments, that is to say—

(i)​

a firearm within the meaning of the M1Firearms Act 1968;

(ii)​

an otter lath or jack, wire or snare;

(iii)​

a crossline or setline;

(iv)​

a spear, gaff, stroke-haul, snatch or other like instrument;

(v)​

a light;
for the purpose of taking or killing salmon, trout or freshwater fish;

and similar for Scotland

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/marine/Salmon-Trout-Coarse/game/methods

 

[Robbi]

Taken from your own link ( note Scotland )



According to the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries (Protection) (Scotland) Act 1951, 'inland waters' include all rivers above estuary limits and their tributary streams, and all waters, watercourses and lochs whether natural or artificial which drain or drain to some extent into the sea.
Rod and Line

The 1951 Act states that, "No person shall fish for or take salmon in any inland water, except by rod and line or by net and coble"d "No person shall fish for or take freshwater fish in any inland water except by rod and line". Some exceptions do, however, exist - the use of cruives for catching salmon, and nets for catching trout (only in ponds or lochs where all proprietors are so agreed), is permitted; and the use of a trap, or net, for catching freshwater fish, other than trout, is permitted (restricted only to owners or occupiers).

 

[Crassy84]

Mike I feel terrible that this entire farce has even been mentioned in your long and much valued name. As for the rest of you who are still quibbling over this, as Toddy has quoted several times too, the Environment Agency view the use of hand lines to be an illegal activity; if any of you fancy a punt do so at your own risk. This is not just from one EA source but at least two separate contacts, you can all continue here at your own pace but essentially AND finally if you are found to be using a hand line as shown many times in this thread by a Bailiff from the Environment Agency it may be viewed as an illegal activity and you may be at risk of enforcement action which could include prosecution, fines, revocation of rod license (if applicable). As Knifefan mentioned the Agency are doing everything they can to stop other activities including nets so don't waste an officers time playing a river punk.

 

[mountainm]

But Robbi. What if I can't tell the difference between a rod and... say... a carrot? Legally I should be allowed to fish with a carrot because I really can't tell the difference between the two things. Given they're so similar and nothing says I can't fish with a carrot. So my rod licence should technically cover carrots too! I won't believe different until a judge shouts it from a loud hailer.

 

[Robbi]

But would you believe it even then Mike ? as you clearly think you know and can define the law better !