Legalities fo Fishing rods, handlines etc

[Tony]

So from this I get that if I go and buy the bit of land with river rights that's just down the road from me I can't use a handline because the river is actually owned by a club so I have to abide by their rules for 'my' bit of the river? If that's not the case and I actually do have the say it's very relevant if handlines are legal or illegal, especially as there's many private owners of river frontage with rights....

 

[Dave]

So from this I get that if I go and buy the bit of land with river rights that's just down the road from me I can't use a handline because the river is actually owned by a club so I have to abide by their rules for 'my' bit of the river? If that's not the case and I actually do have the say it's very relevant if handlines are legal or illegal, especially as there's many private owners of river frontage with rights....

No, thats not what I wrote at all.

If you go and buy the land with the river rights, thats just down the road from you, it would be you as the landowner, who had the option to rent it out to the fishing club. But I believe even then, the club would probably stipulate their rights in the contract, which would abide by their rules.

If you didnt rent it out to a club, then I imagine you could fish with a handline, but I dont know for certain. For instance, I would guess, even though its your river and your land and your fishing rights, you still couldnt use certain methods like gill nets?

[But I did mention in my first post, no33, that

'He must have special permission on that particular stretch. [I.E from the landowner] He should mention that it is not something people can do on rivers.

I dont profess to be an expert on the subject, just an angler with a fair bit of experience. I've posted contacts of people with far greater experience than I, if anyone wants to contact them, for a definitive answer.

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

Just to offer my point of view, I've been a coarse fisherman for about 20 years, in that time I've been a match fisherman and now a hobby fisherman. I have always understood that to fish in freshwater you either need a coarse or salmon license. Both require you to fish with a rod. I have always been advised that even if you fished in your back garden pond, you have to use a rod, I've even been told that the netting we did for sticklebacks in the park stream as kids TECHNICALLY falls into the fishing illegally as it wasn't done with a rod, obviously no ones going to prosecute and 6 year old for this i just use it as an example.
I am also and have been for the same length of time into survival and bushcraft skills, and i would consider the use of any other form of casting a line other than a rod, whip or pole to be illegal. Hobo or handlining using the fishermans mate or similar handlining tools would not cconstitute a rod, even though you can own one you cannot fish it in freshwater. I would also say the fishing license was always referred to as a ROD license.
I would always consider if I were to handline under these conditions i was breaking the law, as such i wouldn't. I consider the handline to be no different to a night line tied to the bank and these have been used to decimate specimen fish stocks by foreign nationals who consider the practice of taking fish for consumption from freshwater to be nkrmal practise.

Just my view, not wishing to pick a fight, just saying it as i see it from the fishermans understanding. Also, i understand you can have a stretch of someone elses waterway run through your property i believe.

 

[Tony]

No, thats not what I wrote at all.

If you go and buy the land with the river rights, thats just down the road from you, it would be you as the landowner, who had the option to rent it out to the fishing club. But I believe even then, the club would probably stipulate their rights in the contract, which would abide by their rules.

If you didnt rent it out to a club, then I imagine you could fish with a handline, but I dont know for certain. For instance, I would guess, even though its your river and your land and your fishing rights, you still couldnt use certain methods like gill nets?

[But I did mention in my first post, no33, that



I dont profess to be an expert on the subject, just an angler with a fair bit of experience. I've posted contacts of people with far greater experience than I, if anyone wants to contact them, for a definitive answer.

So, for those that own or have access to river that is not owned by fishing clubs (sorry, I got the impression that you said clubs owned all of the rivers nationwide) the question of the legality in the use of handlines is very pertinent and it's not just a case of 'no you can't because the clubs rule all' it might be a case of yes you can, or no you can't because law says so.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

Basically no-one can show the piece of laws that governs hand reels hand lines and hobo reels as there isn't one.
The "proper anglers" always get the backs up when this subject arises but can never come up with the legal reasons as to why.

 

[Dave]

I have always been advised that even if you fished in your back garden pond, you have to use a rod, I've even been told that the netting we did for sticklebacks in the park stream as kids TECHNICALLY falls into the fishing illegally as it wasn't done with a rod, obviously no ones going to prosecute and 6 year old for this i just use it as an example.

Thats my understanding too rabbit smacker and most anglers. Im giving the guy the benefit of the doubt though, as he seems intelligent, and has a reputation to uphold, so Im questioning my own beliefs, as to whether you can actually use a handline if its your own river. Or a river, not used by a club, where he has special permission.
Surely an intelligent bloke would have looked into that. And thats how he comes across.

 

[Dave]

Basically no-one can show the piece of laws that governs hand reels hand lines and hobo reels as there isn't one.
The "proper anglers" always get the backs up when this subject arises but can never come up with the legal reasons as to why.

Honestly my backs not up at all. Id happily use a hand line as a practising buscrafter. Youre shooting the messenger here.

 

[Dave]

So, for those that own or have access to river that is not owned by fishing clubs (sorry, I got the impression that you said clubs owned all of the rivers nationwide) the question of the legality in the use of handlines is very pertinent and it's not just a case of 'no you can't because the clubs rule all' it might be a case of yes you can, or no you can't because law says so.

Yes. thats true.

 

[RE8ELD0G]

Sorry Dave not pointing a finger at anyone on here in particular.
But generally when I speak to anglers about my hobo reel they all do the same thing.
"you can't do that.....its illegal...... I pay my rod licence and people like you are spoilt it for us proper anglers"
Even though I pay for my rod licence too but it's seen as a poaching device and so immediately thought of as illegal and wrong.
But no one I have ever spoke too, Inc a EA enforcement officer can show where in any laws it says you can't use them.

 

[Dave]

Sorry Dave not pointing a finger at anyone on here in particular.
But generally when I speak to anglers about my hobo reel they all do the same thing.
"you can't do that.....its illegal...... I pay my rod licence and people like you are spoilt it for us proper anglers"
Even though I pay for my rod licence too but it's seen as a poaching device and so immediately thought of as illegal and wrong.
But no one I have ever spoke too, Inc a EA enforcement officer can show where in any laws it says you can't use them.

No probs mate, kudos for trying, if I met you on the river, I certainly wouldnt have a go at someone with a hand line, id be more curious than anything. Just as I always make a point of having chat with passing kayakers, canoeists, when im stood in full fly fishing regalia, as they always look nervous when passing, i tell em, ive got a novacraft prospector.

 

[WoodGnome]

So, trying to bring the whole thing down to one point I think the basic question after all is whether you can assume that what is not explicitly forbidden is allowed or at least tolerated - as there is no definition of a fishing rod or a handline in the law.

Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975:

[...]
Part I
Prohibition of Certain Modes of Taking or Destroying Fish, etc.

1 Prohibited implements.

(1)Subject to subsection (4) below, no person shall—

(a)use any of the following instruments, that is to say—

(i)a firearm within the meaning of the M1Firearms Act 1968;

(ii)an otter lath or jack, wire or snare;

(iii)a crossline or setline;

(iv)a spear, gaff, stroke-haul, snatch or other like instrument;

(v)a light;

for the purpose of taking or killing salmon, trout or freshwater fish;
(b)have in his possession any instrument mentioned in paragraph (a) above intending to use it to take or kill salmon, trout or freshwater fish; or

(c)throw or discharge any stone or other missile for the purpose of taking or killing, or facilitating the taking or killing of any salmon, trout or freshwater fish.
[...]

Not any mentioning of a handline.

 

[bowji john]

Not every section of every river is owned or controlled by a club.

My 300m section is not - I own both banks.

Mike of MCQbushcraft - if you want to come fish my bit of river with your hand line - sorry 'short pole' - (no euphemism intended!) PM me

You would be welcome any time

J

 

[The Lord Poncho]

I love threads like this - very polarised points of view, and everyone gets a little excited, but in the end the argument gets thrashed out and all of us end up better informed. Keep up the good work, and MCQ - great job in instigating the debate (as well as your cracking videos that make many of us - certainly me - very jealous!).

 

[mountainm]

So, trying to bring the whole thing down to one point I think the basic question after all is whether you can assume that what is not explicitly forbidden is allowed or at least tolerated - as there is no definition of a fishing rod or a handline in the law.

Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975:

[...]
Part I
Prohibition of Certain Modes of Taking or Destroying Fish, etc.

1 Prohibited implements.

(1)Subject to subsection (4) below, no person shall—

(a)use any of the following instruments, that is to say—

(i)a firearm within the meaning of the M1Firearms Act 1968;

(ii)an otter lath or jack, wire or snare;

(iii)a crossline or setline;

(iv)a spear, gaff, stroke-haul, snatch or other like instrument;

(v)a light;

for the purpose of taking or killing salmon, trout or freshwater fish;
(b)have in his possession any instrument mentioned in paragraph (a) above intending to use it to take or kill salmon, trout or freshwater fish; or

(c)throw or discharge any stone or other missile for the purpose of taking or killing, or facilitating the taking or killing of any salmon, trout or freshwater fish.
[...]

Not any mentioning of a handline.

From the same act:

1) General list of salmon and freshwater fisheries offences


Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 2003
This should be read in conjunction with the Aquaculture and Fisheries (Scotland) Act 2007 which inserts a number of
amendments and new offences into the 2003 Act.
Section Offence Note
1 (1) Fishing for salmon in inland waters other than
by rod and line or net & coble or – in certain
circumstances – cruive, haaf net or certificated
fixed engine
1(2) Fishing for salmon in the sea other than by rod
& line, net & coble or bag net, fly net or other
stake net

 

[vestlenning]

Anyway, if the law says a rod is ok but a hand line not then there is something very wrong with the law...

 

[WoodGnome]

From the same act:

Nope, yours is from the consolidation of the general law and the Scottish one for Scotland 2003 (it's an act of the Scottish parliament) and that section refers to salmon only.

The 1975 one concerns all of the UK and has not been changed. There are other regulations for Scotland and Northern Ireland...

By the way, the act you quoted defines the term 'rod and line' as such:

Meaning of “rod and line”

(1)In this Act “rod and line” means single rod and line (used otherwise than as a set line or by way of pointing, or by striking or dragging for fish) with such bait or lure as is not prohibited by this section or, in relation to fishing for salmon, under section 33 or 38(5)(b) of this Act.
(2)It is prohibited to use fish roe, fire or light as bait or lure.

According to this definition the handline would be allowed.

But probably we should create a new thread for our little bickering about fishing laws and regulations here.

Regards,
Marc

 

[Gooner]

As a keen fresh water angler I decided to email the Angling Trust a recognised angling body, to see if they knew if there was a minimum rod length for fresh water angling, there reply below:-

Hi
Well, I've never been asked that question before. In 50 years as an angler I've never heard of a regulation minimum length for a fishing rod, so to the best of my knowledge there isn't one. However, as the organisation responsible for angling bye-laws and regulation I would suggest that the Environment Agency is the correct body to provide the definitive answer.
If you discover that there is a minimum length for a rod I'd be grateful if you could let me know. I'm also interested to hear what prompts the question!?
Kind regards,


Membership Officer, Angling Trust & Fish Legal
Office:
www.anglingtrust.net | www.facebook.com/AnglingTrust | www.twitter.com

Angling Trust Ltd – Registered Office: Eastwood House – 6 Rainbow Street - Leominster - Herefordshire – HR6 8DQ – Company Registration Number: 05320350 - VAT No: 948 411 215

 

[Jack Bounder]

OK. Here's the unofficial response from my friend. She got the info from a former colleague and current employee of the EA.

In freshwater you must use a rod as a fishing licence applies to the use of a rod and line.

 

[Jack Bounder]

I've asked for further clarification.

 

[3bears]

OK. Here's the unofficial response from my friend. She got the info from a former colleague and current employee of the EA.

In freshwater you must use a rod as a fishing licence applies to the use of a rod and line.

Which comes back to there is no definition on the minimum, (or maximum even) rod length.

It's perfectly fine and seen as a competitive sport to fish a canal or pond with a 17m long, carbon fibre pole and fishing line, but not ok to fish with a 6 inch 'rod' in the same way.

impeccable logic.......