Land and how do you get the right response?!?
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rich59 said:
The best example of a drove is the Ridgeway, though a bad example for bushcraft due to all the ramblers and off roaders. Droves are basically the old highways of hundreds of years ago, some go back to Roman times and earlier. They can be recognised on maps by looking for tracks which are named as ....long drove, or ....way, or ......ridgeway, etc. Some are obviously more suitable than others (you have to find and explore). They can stretch for miles and can offer brilliant spots for bushcraft. They are public land so trespass is not an issue, and providing you do not cause an obstruction for farmers, camping is no problem. In fact the only time I ever ran into trouble with the law was when after building my shelter and campfire I was mistaken for a hippy traveller by a farmer.
Also the old railway lines and canals of yesteryear can yield wonderful treasures for bushcraft and living on the land
swyn said:
I think an association would be a great idea, climbers, walkers, cavers etc all have their own representative bodies so why shouldn't we ? Maybe there is some grant money to be had.
AdrianM
Frequent the places you want to use, and keep your eyes peeled for dead cows, trapped sheep, escaped horses, wrecked gates, freshly burned out cars, etc etc, keep the owners or manager informed, be helpful, they will soon realise whos side your on. Jobs a good 'un.
I'm in Milton Keynes but I used to live in Aylesbury so know all the woods up around Wendover down to Wycombe quite well.
It's a good idea to use these areas as they are underutilised.
Here is a reply from the Duke of Bedford Estate (Woburn) after my enquiry:-
Thank you for your enquiry regarding bushcraft activities in the Woburn woodland. I passed your enquiry to both Mr. Hardie, the Woods Manager and to the Duke of Bedfords office. Regretfully it has been decided that they do not wish to have groups of people in the woods.
This is mainly because although we are sure that your group will behave in a responsible manner, others will see you there and feel that they should have the same rights and privileges. They, of course, may not behave responsibly and we are then left with problems. It is therefore easier to say no to all rather than have difficulties later.
I am sorry that we are unable to help you with your request.
Regards
Diane Willison
Bedford Office
I have thanked them for their consideration and asked whether they would therefore consider giving access to selected groups to areas of woodland not usually accessible to the public, but I'm not holding my breath.
Has anyone got any other suggestions?!!?
regards,
Phil
It's a good idea to use these areas as they are underutilised.
Here is a reply from the Duke of Bedford Estate (Woburn) after my enquiry:-
Thank you for your enquiry regarding bushcraft activities in the Woburn woodland. I passed your enquiry to both Mr. Hardie, the Woods Manager and to the Duke of Bedfords office. Regretfully it has been decided that they do not wish to have groups of people in the woods.
This is mainly because although we are sure that your group will behave in a responsible manner, others will see you there and feel that they should have the same rights and privileges. They, of course, may not behave responsibly and we are then left with problems. It is therefore easier to say no to all rather than have difficulties later.
I am sorry that we are unable to help you with your request.
Regards
Diane Willison
Bedford Office
I have thanked them for their consideration and asked whether they would therefore consider giving access to selected groups to areas of woodland not usually accessible to the public, but I'm not holding my breath.
Has anyone got any other suggestions?!!?
regards,
Phil
I would suggest that you don't give up. keep writing to them, and even suggest that you would welcome an opportunity to meet with Mr Hardie, the woods manager to reassure him that you are a responsible person. perhaps volunteer some free labour or something like that to prove your worth and commitment, and to show him that you are serious.
I echo the letter from Wooburn Estate. The problems with access are seen by the majority of land/woodland owners as exactly as stated. No matter what the relationship you may evolve with the manager. The fear is that people WILL take advantage and this, sadly, has been proven time and time again. So the easy and simple answer is NO.
The ONLY way is to form a society/fellowship and all what that entails. The liability problem is then an umbrella and shared. The members are then recognised as being enthusiasts and experts in their own right. Then one can approach from another angle entirely.
I would be happy for a fellow to come and offer help etc etc BUT he is NOT INSURED and consequently I would be unable to offer much in the way of barter and certainly would,at present, be totally UNABLE to allow any access to woodland apart from that which is available at present ie walking along permitted paths and that has been taken care of by the present government. There is a duty of care and HSE legislation with that one too!!!
Sorry to have to put my work hat on!
Please do not be disheartened with the tone of this note. I really am trying hard to make sense of this with a number of other BCUK members. We still have a long way to go at present. Swyn.
The ONLY way is to form a society/fellowship and all what that entails. The liability problem is then an umbrella and shared. The members are then recognised as being enthusiasts and experts in their own right. Then one can approach from another angle entirely.
I would be happy for a fellow to come and offer help etc etc BUT he is NOT INSURED and consequently I would be unable to offer much in the way of barter and certainly would,at present, be totally UNABLE to allow any access to woodland apart from that which is available at present ie walking along permitted paths and that has been taken care of by the present government. There is a duty of care and HSE legislation with that one too!!!
Sorry to have to put my work hat on! Please do not be disheartened with the tone of this note. I really am trying hard to make sense of this with a number of other BCUK members. We still have a long way to go at present. Swyn.
I fully understand where you are coming from, but if a person is insured and can prove it, would it then be possible for them to have access? By the way, I emailed the Countryside alliance and asked them about Insurance for Bushcrafters. So far, they have not replied. (8 days and counting)
I would not want to stand up in a court of law and argue a case IF someone really did have an accident. They DO happen! I would probably be professionally uninsurable from then on. I know that sounds like a cop out! The norm now within Forestry operations is 5million public liability. Would you pay the premiums for that just to mess about over a weekend on your own? Me personally,I would rather go with like minded people, form new friendships and learn from one another. At the moment this seems to involve attending courses or attending BCUK events or similar. Also the legwork behind the scenes to allow just a weekends activities will take a whole working day at least 
If one approaches as a society or fellowship as I wrote last, all that, as far as I can see will be taken care of within said society. Another plus is this perhaps opens up the whole country to enthusiasts enabling them to access woodland on a regular basis. Perhaps Tony could shed some light on this. I see a trend in the places that are in regular use as they all have seem to have links with the educational establishment. Private landowners are in a different boat.
As I said in my last note I am trying to approach this from a landowners perspective and the questions keep rolling in and IF one asks a question, how many answers do you want I do not know anything about Irish law. You certainly have some different approaches on country matters but I feel that as I know nothing about them I can not comment. Just to let you know it took our insurers 6 weeks to respond to our last request and that was with ONLY questions. I have already filled 2xA4 pages with answers!!!!!!!!! Swyn
If one approaches as a society or fellowship as I wrote last, all that, as far as I can see will be taken care of within said society. Another plus is this perhaps opens up the whole country to enthusiasts enabling them to access woodland on a regular basis. Perhaps Tony could shed some light on this. I see a trend in the places that are in regular use as they all have seem to have links with the educational establishment. Private landowners are in a different boat.As I said in my last note I am trying to approach this from a landowners perspective and the questions keep rolling in and IF one asks a question, how many answers do you want
I do not know anything about Irish law. You certainly have some different approaches on country matters but I feel that as I know nothing about them I can not comment. Just to let you know it took our insurers 6 weeks to respond to our last request and that was with ONLY questions. I have already filled 2xA4 pages with answers!!!!!!!!! Swyn
This all seems quite disheartening, really. From my own point of view I am lucky to have access to a small woodland, so long as I am discreet (ie: tidy as I go) and that there is only myself and a couple of others with me.
It is sad, as the area lends itself to a decent sized moot, there is even piped water to a barn close by.
I am hoping in the fullness of time and good behaviour on my part that the situation will change.
I am out next week with my 8yr old and one of his hardier mates who has badgered my son ever since he heard of our first bushcamp earlier this year. It will be a test of their fortitude, as the forecast is for 40mph winds and rain
It is sad, as the area lends itself to a decent sized moot, there is even piped water to a barn close by.
I am hoping in the fullness of time and good behaviour on my part that the situation will change.
I am out next week with my 8yr old and one of his hardier mates who has badgered my son ever since he heard of our first bushcamp earlier this year. It will be a test of their fortitude, as the forecast is for 40mph winds and rain
I am really pleased to hear of your sons enthusiasm Stovie,and of your little bit of woodland. Please do not be disheartened as I feel that all will come right in the end.This movement is still in it's infancy and has a long road ahead and as with all young things it has to grow. I feel really positive, if I did not would I be doing all the legwork that I am at the moment. I feel that given time and careful thought opportunities will arise to benefit both parties. 
I completely agree, if only everyone in this country who ventured into the woods and the wild in general showed the proper respect and common sense then we wouldn't be in this situation.
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