The hermit of Loch Treig

[Toddy]

Up to yourself on that one

That said, I went into town for my first optician's appointment in four years, today. It was a quiet morning and I still quietly freaked out at the sheer number of people. People 'close' to me, people talking to me, in my space.

We're just not used to it now.

Heaven knows how folks who live really remotely feel when they visit 'civilisation'.

M

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

Can I just point out that the ordnance survey once did a survey of UK to work out the most remote location in terms of furthest point from any sign of human existence. It was I believe a place in the North of Scotland and the distance from the nearest sign of human inhabitation / existence was 7 miles! That's 7 miles from the nearest road, building, electricity pylon, fence, wall, former croft, etc.

Add to the fact most places near a Loch are probably places people pass by or actually visit. The hermit of treig had visitors and walkers passed by regularly. He was not hiding as such. His home was not a stealthy one. He was very unlikely to have lived there long before he was known as living there. Like he was found years after living there so the landowner let him off. It's probably the fact he got lucky with his spot in that the landowner wasn't bothered by him living there.

If this is your goal then you need to think less on hiding and more on building relationships with landowners in order to find one willing to help you. Perhaps you might be lucky that one landowner might know another who is OK with your plans. Kind of passing you around or suggesting others until you find your compassionate landowner who's willing support you in your plans.

I do not know all this for sure only the 7 miles to the remotest location bit. But I reckon I won't be far from the reality of your aims. I wish you luck and hope you'll find good advice that helps you. I'd listen to people on here though. Some very knowledgeable people on here.

So just to clarify (I will probably copy and paste this portion to answer others) he actually did get permission. Recently (in another forum), I spoke to someone who knows him quite well and even helped him build what he has. He did get permission from the land owners (who I also know who they are (I do not know them personally I was just given a name)).

In regards to your other comment on how people come across him, that seems to make a lot of sense. The film they made it seem far worse and isolated. The 7 miles is more than enough for me. Most people can run a mile in 11 minutes. Walking would take hours. Going to a place where it's isolated and no roads is more than enough for me. Given the fact that Loch Treig is 1 hour from the nearest village (town/city (I use old style wording by choice), I find that perfect enough for me

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

Id like to know how the Loch Trieg guy got permission to chop down so many (obviously farmed) trees to build a cabin.

So just to clarify (I will probably copy and paste this portion to answer others) he actually did get permission. Recently (in another forum), I spoke to someone who knows him quite well and even helped him build what he has. He did get permission from the land owners (who I also know who they are (I do not know them personally I was just given a name)).

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

I don't find you very inconhereant, in fact you are very clear for someone such as yourself. We've certainly had far far worse here once or twice!
If you think we are misguiding you, please don't. We are only concerned that you realy understand what the realities are in the UK.
It's not to put you off, or misguide you, in fact it's the opposite. We want to make sure you really understand properly, before you commit yourself.
Toddy lives in Scotland, and is a real scot, so take her advice seriously, as she has a lifetime of experience and two sons. So she realy knows the score.
Tengu has offered you to visit her in the summer, and she will help you for sure. You would probably like it there and learn a lot.
You say you have a job planned, make sure you have somewhere to live too, apartments are not cheap and everyone is fighting for them, they are overpriced too.
Thing is, Scotland is the place most people dream of getting away from it all, and londoners( and others are flocking there, with wads of cash in their pockets from selling their London homes, which are far more expensive than Scottish ones, and pricing local people out of even the rental market.
To own a gun, you have to have a permanent address, and a gun locker. Which would not be possible living wild, unless you had many thousands of pounds to buy your own home, (£20.000, won't be enough for sure) whether that be a croft or not. Sadly
I think it won't be quite as simple as you believe.
Laws change all the time, and even some areas that allowed wild camping before covid are now cracking down on wild camping, and rv camping.
If it was as easy as you imagine many more of us would be doing it for sure.
That's not to try putting you off, but only to make sure you understand the task you have set yourself in it's fullness.
It's actualy easier to go to Bali and live like you want than Scotland!

Thank you very much for this, it has been beyond helpful, I missed the comment about visiting the one young lady but I certainly will do that. I know it won't be easy but when someone is dedicated, anything is possible, it may not be the way I want but I will find a way. I am sorry to EVERYONE in here if I am being rude or nasty I swear I am not trying to and I am REALLY sorry. I really appreciate all the love and advice that has been given. I read every single comment and take EVERY SINGLE ONE into consideration and I begin building/editing my plan off the way that people have proven my current plan that is not possible in ways. I really appreciate you all

 

[Tengu]

The Scottish Crannog Centre – The Scottish Crannog Centre

crannog.co.uk

Oh you must do, we are great fun.

And I think you will find us very accepting, (Something I have struggled with for many years) have you any practical skills, beyond IT?

IT is certainly very helpful in modern museology.

 

[Woody girl]

Thank you very much for this, it has been beyond helpful, I missed the comment about visiting the one young lady but I certainly will do that. I know it won't be easy but when someone is dedicated, anything is possible, it may not be the way I want but I will find a way. I am sorry to EVERYONE in here if I am being rude or nasty I swear I am not trying to and I am REALLY sorry. I really appreciate all the love and advice that has been given. I read every single comment and take EVERY SINGLE ONE into consideration and I begin building/editing my plan off the way that people have proven my current plan that is not possible in ways. I really appreciate you all

You are not rude or nasty, just passionate! I can see that.
I'm very glad you are editing your plan on the info you have gained here. You may have to do a lot more, but that doesn't mean you can't get there.....eventualy. but things may change in strange ways as you go towards your target. It can be odd what comes into your life and make changes when you least expect it, and set you on a different path. Don't be too rigid, go with the flow, and you may even end up somewhere better!

 

[Paul_B]

I've had a chance to read the bits I skipped. I should have read more and I possibly wouldn't have said what I did the way I did. I don't like being negative but I fear that things aren't easy to do what you plan. I've heard a few cautionary tales some on here and others through people I've met.

There's a tale about a guy who'd done a lot of survival and bushcraft courses who set out to survive off the land, Rannoch Moor I think. He was found dead in a bothy their when the winter had subsided enough for walkers to find him. Another tale I heard was a relative of someone who had some reason to self isolate. Health or something. Anyway he lived off the land in the Rannoch Moor area middle or early 1900s I think. He couldn't survive off the land and the locals would leave stuff out for him to eat, wear, etc. Without that he'd probably not survived.

Then there's the newspaper man from Scotland who lived a year in alaskan wilderness. He only managed it with the help of a first nation family and the patriarch of the family who gave him the specialist, local skills to survive.

I personally think the hermit of Loch treig is a truly remarkable man doing what he did but I dont think he was truly self sufficient. Plus he had spent a very long time exploring various parts of the world and developing/ learning the skills he used in Scotland. I think you're on that journey of learning yourself. If you do this, I hope you do and are successful, you need to be sure you have with knowledge and skills like the hermit had.

As to your ASD, I think that's the coverall term these days, it's more common than people think. I heard that if some days things get to you such that you feel like you want to let it all out and yell when you get home alone then that could be a sign of being on the autism spectrum. That's more common than widely known as a lot don't know they have it.

I also dislike the use of the word norms to describe ppl who don't have disorders like autism, adhd, bipolar, etc. Implies there's a normal and abnormal. These are impairments or disabilities but people with them aren't IMHO abnormal. I think language is important with such disorders. It makes me feel like an imposed division.

I've no real experience of autism. There's two people with autism in the wider family. One severely the other less so. One got a lot of help the other went through mainstream school system with a low level of support. One has a good social life and loads of friends and the other is very isolates. The one with the life is the one with the greatest level impairments. We have a very poor system to help autistic kids to make the most of their life I reckon. No idea if the relevance of that to the OP other than perhaps if he needed any support he might get nothing in the UK, but I doubt he needs much that way.

I think it might be better to become part of a remote, Scottish community than outright isolation. I think that's been said upthread. The village at the end of knoydart was on the news just now. I've stayed there and it has a community but a lot of isolation to it. You can only get to the village by boat or 20 odd miles walk in. I did it that way and loved the area. I'd look to that village and seeing if there's a way to become part of that community somehow as a means to reduce your exposure to society but doing it within the way things are in Scotland. If that makes sense.

I not really much help I reckon but I wish I could help the op somehow to do something close to what he wants to.

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

The Scottish Crannog Centre – The Scottish Crannog Centre

crannog.co.uk

Oh you must do, we are great fun.

And I think you will find us very accepting, (Something I have struggled with for many years) have you any practical skills, beyond IT?

IT is certainly very helpful in modern museology.

I was born and raised on a farm, I hunt, fish and am a historian. I am taking my final survival instructors course in the wild far from civilisation for 50 days. Beyond that not really haha

 

[Tengu]

You cannot get away from community in Scotland.

But the Scots are fun. They will rib you no end for being English but they are great fun.

And they are quite used to Americans, you will get on just fine.

When are you comming?

 

[Nice65]

The Scottish Crannog Centre – The Scottish Crannog Centre

crannog.co.uk

Oh you must do, we are great fun.

And I think you will find us very accepting, (Something I have struggled with for many years) have you any practical skills, beyond IT?

IT is certainly very helpful in modern museology.

I‘m only just into this thread and reckon Tengu would be a good person for you to meet with you Mhearadh.

There’s another Scottish hermit guy, Ben Fogle visited him and made a programme.

Ah, here. Jake Williams, quite a social bloke who likes a bit of company but chooses his own space. I think that describes the wishes of most of us to be honest.

Caravan-treehouse hermit becomes unlikeliest of internet sensations

LIVING in the middle of a 14,000-acre forest, Jake Williams is one Scot who has relished almost a year in lockdown.

www.heraldscotland.com

 

[Tengu]

Wanting to get into farming might be difficult. the vast majority of farmers come from farming families. I attend the Royal Agricultural University and that is most of them. (Though many students are international).

You will need a car in Scotland if you arent in a city.

Which means £2000 AT LEAST. (and I suspect that is a very optimistic figure).

Petrol is £1.69 a litre at the moment.

(Oh, yeah, the term stick shift mean anything?)

(And if you rent a car dont forget to specify you need an Automatic....otherwise you will get a stick shift...)

You say that skills wise, you can farm, fish, hunt and do IT...of these the only useful one is IT and we already have IT people here.

Gaelic? Could you teach it? I am absolutely not sure how useful this skill would be and how well down it might go. (But of course most Gaelic speakers live outside Scotland).

Folk have posted stuff from the Guardian and the BBC here...they have a certain agenda.
The Guardian dont like rich folk (or folk percived to be rich) and they do stuff like tell minorities (I dont like this term...`Differently British`?) they will be discriminated against in the GB countryside.

(Maybe 20 years ago it was different but today the countryside is quite diverse and sometimes its the folks from small communities who fit best into small communities)

The BBC is London based and regard the countryside as rather quaint...they are an organisation of offbeat folk who toe the party line. (Like Dr Who). They just love human interest stories of non boat rocky eccentrics.

(Here the word `eccentric` is not associated with insinuations of mental illness; that is an American view).

Have I got this right?

 

[Souledman]

While of course it is true that different media outlets have their own perspective on things I don’t think the above characterisations are fair or relevant to this conversation.

 

[Broch]

Agreed, and, on top of that, there is a shortage of people with good software skills.

 

[SaraR]

Not sure how similar Scotland and Wales are in this respect, but here in Wales we’ve had several cases of people building houses on their own land (usually environmentally-friendly ”unusual” houses) without planning permission, only for the houses to be demolished by the council. So you can’t assume that you’ll be able to just build a cabin somewhere, even with permission from the land owner or on your own land, or that it would be easy to get planning permission to do so.

It’s also very hard/ near impossible to build a permanent home in a woodland or on agricultural land (e.g. a field), unless you fit some very specific criteria. Wales has something called the One Planet development scheme that allows building on some land where otherwise not allowed, but it comes with very strict conditions.

It might be easier to buy /rent a derelict house and do it up, but I don’t really know much about that. Others here might.

 

[Broch]

It might be easier to buy /rent a derelict house and do it up, but I don’t really know much about that. Others here might.

I just had a quick search - there are crofts with simple buildings and some defined as needing 'rebuilding' in Scotland. Some come with a few hectares of land as well. It's not impossible

 

[Toddy]

@Broch
Do you have a link to those ? I know a family looking for such.

M

 

[Souledman]

Not sure how similar Scotland and Wales are in this respect, but here in Wales we’ve had several cases of people building houses on their own land (usually environmentally-friendly ”unusual” houses) without planning permission, only for the houses to be demolished by the council. So you can’t assume that you’ll be able to just build a cabin somewhere, even with permission from the land owner or on your own land, or that it would be easy to get planning permission to do so.

It’s also very hard/ near impossible to build a permanent home in a woodland or on agricultural land (e.g. a field), unless you fit some very specific criteria. Wales has something called the One Planet development scheme that allows building on some land where otherwise not allowed, but it comes with very strict conditions.

It might be easier to buy /rent a derelict house and do it up, but I don’t really know much about that. Others here might.

Yes this would be the same, similar, the Highland Council has a limited number of exceptions for allowing housing to be built outwith settlements or identified housing sites. There is not an equivalent to the One Planet scheme, there would be more of a chance to rebuild a ruin.

 

[Souledman]

Here’s one @Toddy https://www.mcewanfraserlegal.co.uk...e-strathy-east-sutherland-kw14-7rz/mfl5216690

Interestingly it says a crofter has a right to build a house if there isn’t on the croft already, subject to planning permission. I would also expect that a house for a croft would fall into the situations where a house would get planning permission.

 

[Toddy]

Crofts come under some strange laws. If I mind right they're part of a crofting township, and thats a whole other set of guidelines too.

I do know that the highlands were not so long ago much more populated than now.
I worked in places where there were more names on the cenotaph than there were children in the school.
The world changed, folks moved, farming became a awful lot less labour intensive, etc.,

However, that means that there are a lot of abandoned buildings that have slowly mouldered down into the landscape. Many of them can be found on the old OS maps.
Sometimes, not every time, because council planning is sometimes another set of rules, restrictions and the like, those properties can be re-built, but they have to be in keeping with the land use. Not built just as a house out in the back of beyond, not just built to set up a business.....and mind, they can claim all sorts of things are really a business.

So, finding actual sites, with houses that can be re-built, not just an airy, oh this could be re-built, is not always an easy thing. Especially since everybody and their auntie tried to move rural and north when lockdown and the like happened. Lot of locals priced out of the market entirely.

Supposedly house prices are expected to fall 8% next year.
I'll not hold my breath, and I know that if they do an awful lot of folks will struggle, but there are a lot of folks hoping too.

I don't think there's an easy answer, tbh.

 

[Broch]

@Broch
Do you have a link to those ? I know a family looking for such.

M

To be honest Toddy there seem to be loads. I'm perhaps being naive but if this is a life that someone wants there appear to be opportunities - they will need a bit of capital to get going though.

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