Land access: What is a reasonable price to pay?

  • Hey Guest, We've had to cancel our 2020 Summer BushMoot PLEASE LOOK HERE for more information.

Martyn

New Member
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
31
55
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
You may be convicted in a magistrates but breaching a byelaw is NOT a recordable offence and therefore not a criminal conviction. You will not be summons on the 1st breach of a byelaw as you cannot be expected to know every byelaw in every parish.

Much rubbish is spoken about wildcamping.
I'll defer to your superior knowledge.
 
And Martyn too :)

Unfortunately fire isn't fabulous- you're talking about a largish, sodden mass, which a cover would burn off leaving the contents for the consideration of everyone around the fire. Personally I'd feel uncomfortable about both this and cooking on the fire subsequently and I wouldn't dream of exposing the kind and helpful chaps from the meets that I've been to, to the potential embaressment. A waste fire is the only way really and it has to burn a fair time, with a fair amount of heat, to fully dispose of used sanitary wear.

Scavenging animals are likely to dig for such a pungent blood smell if buried and if you're considering a toilet, you'll make yourself much more attractive to family groups by suppyling a disposal bin. I hope this helps and hasn't offended :)
no burning is not the way for that or any rubbish

would it not be expected to be packed out by the camper same as all the other Rubbish they generate.

that assumes no litter bin/ facility is going to be put in. If there is to be litter bins that they will empty then a separate bin might be appropriate. would be more cost as well to deal with rubbish left might even be charges as commercial waste so you have to pay as well as some body else having to actually empty the bins etc


sanitary towels and nappies can be bagged and put in the normal rubbish sacks and should be fine for a couple of days

as a public wood there maybe dog poo bins which if asked about might be an acceptable disposal

ATB

Duncan
 

widu13

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 9, 2008
2,335
17
Ubique Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt
In reply to David, I would say that for £5 pn or less, scout grounds will allow you to camp, use dead wood and provide water, toilets and showers.

Personally £10 is too much. There are 5 of us and to put that on a comparison we can stay in a full price Travelodge for that amount!

£10 per head and have a few visitors with higher expectations of facilities, or lots of visitors with less expectations? I know which I would choose.

Hope it works out whatever you choose.
 
I would add theft and criminal damage to the laws broken if you have a fire. The wood in my woodland is owned by me and I don't give permission to others to burn it.

How would you like me to pitch up in your garden sleep on your lawn and burn your resources?


dunno about theft taking blackberries or nettles or foraging for other wild plants as long as you dont uproot is not theft

is cutting a branch of a wild tree any different in the eyes/ wording of the law than cutting a nettle.

is the tree different if its in a wood as apposed ot in the hedge of a field etc

it its in a plantation yes its a crop so not wild


i dont know the answer

fire yes thats damage

ATB

Duncan
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
0
Elsewhere
I would add theft and criminal damage to the laws broken if you have a fire. The wood in my woodland is owned by me and I don't give permission to others to burn it.

How would you like me to pitch up in your garden sleep on your lawn and burn your resources?


I would agree with you about lighting fires but I don't think you can compare some one's garden to large parcels of land, wildcampers don't as a rule, pitch their tent in people's gardens ;)
 

Ivan...

Ex member
Jul 28, 2011
1,771
0
Dartmoor
Well, my 2 penneth worth ! I have been running a bushcraft site on Dartmoor for a year now, and i did not know what to expect, my first meet was the first one i had ever been to ! If your site has safe vehicle parking, not more than a mile to walk , the wood has level areas, access to clean water , ample firewood , toilet facilities and a recycling , rubbish area, aswell as sticking to bushcrafters/wild campers , you should be fine .

I run my site slightly differently to most , as i host the meets and am allways there . I wouldn't dream of just letting groups of people just turn up , give me a tenner and leave them to their own devices. I would not do stag/hen weekends etc , i think you would be asking for trouble. Nearly all bushcrafters/wild campers , have a passion and respect for what we do , admittedly i have only got my business from the BCUK and Natural Bushcraft websites , and have not advertised or promoted my site out side of that sphere, and wouldn't !!

Bushcrafters dont want to arrive and see a masive list of rules and things they can't do ! nothing more off putting to the start of a meet, most of your guests will know the rules , newbies are shown and any questions/concerns will be raised beforehand.

You will have to be aware of numbers , i would limit my first one to about 20 , obviously the one thing you can't control is the weather , with a wear and tear view, 20 people walking all over your site for a weekend when its wet, makes a mess, if you have a big enough area to rotate sites , to allow areas to rest and recover would be great .

I have allways let people have small individual fires , as well as a central fire/ gathering , cooking , socialising area. In fairness not many bother , as they have stoves etc. But those that have leave no trace .

Hope this has not seemed like a lecture, but i can honestly say doing it my way suits me fine and you will never meet a better bunch of people in your life ! you will make new friends, that will come back again and again...

Can't wait for the next one!!

Atb Ivan...
 

David Willis

Member
Nov 29, 2005
36
0
60
Buckinghamshire
David, the fire wood issue should be considered in great detail. You will be very suprised at how much wood one person can get through keeping a small fire going for a day. I used to run weekend events and ship in tons of old pallets for people to burn, along with no restriction on using the wood on the forest floor. After the event it would take about a year for the woodland to recover. Portaloos, rubbish collection and mains water was also provided. You will need to monitor it very carefully and maybe be prepared to deal with axe carrying, knife wielding drunks. Be aware that once a location is known you may get other "visitors". We had equipment stolen and people using the wood uninvited.

I dont want to sound too negative, but I can only offer comment from my own experience. I think that what you are planning is a great idea and I hope it works out. I wish you the best of luck.
Thanks for your thoughts - good bushcraft folk wouldn't use masses of wood to keep a fire going all day (see "2. Would need to demostrate their commitment to minimal impact on environment and good Bushcraft" in initial post).

Everyone wanting to use the Bushcraft area would need to meet with us first, it is quite possible that we adopt a permit scheme i.e. you receive one having attended an on-site course and or can adequately demonstrate good bushcraft knowledge and skills. Those then with a permit would be able to book time in the woods. The intention will not be to create an onerous process, but simply ensure that everyone in the woods has adequate knowlege & skills and hence reduce the overhead of large scale clean ups as you have experienced. Much like the getting to know folks in Land access: would you give permission?

As far as wood is concerned, it's a very large woodland, so provision of timber won't be an issue, but clearly. as you suggest, it will need to be carefully monitored.
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
0
Elsewhere
Bit off topic I know but I was informed recently that if you are caught collecting fungi by the land owner, they can only tell you to leave & have no right to ask for or demand the return of the fungi collected.......
 
Thanks for your thoughts - good bushcraft folk wouldn't use masses of wood to keep a fire going all day (see "2. Would need to demostrate their commitment to minimal impact on environment and good Bushcraft" in initial post).
Dont bet on it the bison Farm wood get's raped every year at the Wilderness gathering by axe wielding maniacs (one year i will find the To$$er who is up at 3am with the axe every night every year )
me and my mate can gather enough wood to run the fire for four days in about 30mins and still have a pile left most are hacking and chopping every waking hr.Every body learns 100 ways to light a fire few actually learn to run and manage one ;)



a Watched camp etc is a good idea i was talking a few years ago to a bushcraft school who where looking to open for camping/bushcraft but they would only accept people who had been on at least a basic bushcraft course ( not just theirs) as most pole do a course and thats it they have no ware to go and practice exept pay and do the next course up.
 

David Willis

Member
Nov 29, 2005
36
0
60
Buckinghamshire
Well, my 2 penneth worth ! I have been running a bushcraft site on Dartmoor for a year now, and i did not know what to expect, my first meet was the first one i had ever been to ! If your site has safe vehicle parking, not more than a mile to walk , the wood has level areas, access to clean water , ample firewood , toilet facilities and a recycling , rubbish area, aswell as sticking to bushcrafters/wild campers , you should be fine .

I run my site slightly differently to most , as i host the meets and am allways there . I wouldn't dream of just letting groups of people just turn up , give me a tenner and leave them to their own devices. I would not do stag/hen weekends etc , i think you would be asking for trouble. Nearly all bushcrafters/wild campers , have a passion and respect for what we do , admittedly i have only got my business from the BCUK and Natural Bushcraft websites , and have not advertised or promoted my site out side of that sphere, and wouldn't !!

Bushcrafters dont want to arrive and see a masive list of rules and things they can't do ! nothing more off putting to the start of a meet, most of your guests will know the rules , newbies are shown and any questions/concerns will be raised beforehand.

You will have to be aware of numbers , i would limit my first one to about 20 , obviously the one thing you can't control is the weather , with a wear and tear view, 20 people walking all over your site for a weekend when its wet, makes a mess, if you have a big enough area to rotate sites , to allow areas to rest and recover would be great .

I have allways let people have small individual fires , as well as a central fire/ gathering , cooking , socialising area. In fairness not many bother , as they have stoves etc. But those that have leave no trace .

Hope this has not seemed like a lecture, but i can honestly say doing it my way suits me fine and you will never meet a better bunch of people in your life ! you will make new friends, that will come back again and again...

Can't wait for the next one!!

Atb Ivan...
Thank you for your first hand experience Ivan.

Hosting meets in the woods and being there with everyone sounds like a good option for consideration, may provide a route to recognising peoples level of Bushcraft knowledge and skills and a good way to gain experience.

Do you have a link to details of what is on offer, the meets etc at your bushcraft site on Dartmoor? When is the next one?

Many thanks
David
www.davidwillis.biz
 

Wayne

BCUK Welfare Officer
Mod
Dec 7, 2003
3,463
323
48
West Sussex
www.forestknights.co.uk
I am always amazed how much materials people use especially in a group setting and do not underestimate others lack of regard for your woodland.

£10 per night is a fair price. I think you will find it more work than you realise. Make sure you have a very robust woodland management plan to reduce environmental impact. Maybe just keep one area set aside for shelter building as this has a huge impact on the flora and forna.
 
There is no right to forage in the UK unlike France for example. One should always where possible seek landowners permission.
yes there is Wildlife and Countryside act 1981

allows you to pick (but not uproot) wild plants not on the schedule 8 protected list

tho you cannot sell without landowners permission ( unless your a German lady in the new Forest who has been doing it for years with mushrooms )

Theft act says you cannot steel a wild plant or parts as its not property (has to be a crop )

trespass is not a criminal offence

however if the land is now covered by the CROW act 2000 you cant pick anything (thanks ramblers association) actually you pretty much cant do anything without permission but ramble over it
 

Ivan...

Ex member
Jul 28, 2011
1,771
0
Dartmoor
David, if you look under the Meetups And Social Chatter , thread , under England South West, heading anything with the word Dartmoor in the title will give you a good idea of how i run my place (worts an all !! ) lots of photos and videos to look at , also loads of comments etc.

Be warned you will be all morning trying to view it all !! but pick the bones out of it and you should get a good insight as to what happens on Dartmoor !!

Also there is a video somewhere on here , where i give a video guided tour of my place , no idea where it is though , maybe somebody can point you in the right direction .

Not sure as to a concrete date for the next one is , with Christmas and all , but i always announce it on the above heading. The thing is now a lot of my guests dont even list their intented participation on here now they ring or text pm etc, just like the big happy family we are !!

Regards Ivan...
 

Ivan...

Ex member
Jul 28, 2011
1,771
0
Dartmoor
David
Sorry not the most tech ! But if you go to You Tube , under the heading Bushcraft Assault Course, you will see how silly the meets can be if you want ! The group had to carve a spoon to eat their dinner with, and then complete the course in the fastest time for a prize !

Just a one off ! things are a lot more sensible and bushcrafty nowadays ....

Also if you visit Savagebushcraft.com there are photos and vids on there , hope that helps

Ivan..

Ps if you want to ask anything you don't want in the public domain , just pm me ..
 

David Willis

Member
Nov 29, 2005
36
0
60
Buckinghamshire
Dont bet on it the bison Farm wood get's raped every year at the Wilderness gathering by axe wielding maniacs (one year i will find the To$$er who is up at 3am with the axe every night every year )
me and my mate can gather enough wood to run the fire for four days in about 30mins and still have a pile left most are hacking and chopping every waking hr.Every body learns 100 ways to light a fire few actually learn to run and manage one ;)



a Watched camp etc is a good idea i was talking a few years ago to a bushcraft school who where looking to open for camping/bushcraft but they would only accept people who had been on at least a basic bushcraft course ( not just theirs) as most pole do a course and thats it they have no ware to go and practice exept pay and do the next course up.
Thank you for sharing your experience at bison farm. Just being a day visitor to the gathering, I've not seen this side of things, though a few folks do seem overly tooled up! Such a shame when a few spoil it for the majority - I guess peer pressure doesn't do it for the axe wielding maniacs!
 

pauljm116

Native
May 6, 2011
1,457
5
Rainham, Kent
£10 a night is a fair price. The place I usually go to charges £12.50 a night plus £5 for a bag of wood, foraging for tinder/kindling is allowed but not for bigger stuff as it would impact the wildlife and woodland too much. I think they must have a supplier that delivers wood.

So IMO I would be quite happy to pay £10 a night and pay for bags of wood too as Id rather go somewhere I know I wont get into trouble camping and dont mind someone making some money as long as I get to do wildish camping.
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
0
Elsewhere
Not without permission, I cant be bothered with all the skulking about.

This was my last campsite about 3 weeks ago...



...and I had permission to camp and make a fire.




Jeep, massive tent.........................that's cheating :D............would be difficult getting away with wild camping with that set up though.:rolleyes:
I would expect to see Robert Redford & Meryl Streep stepping out of that tent :cool: