Knife-Machete-Sword

[TeeDee]

Just a quick question for the Knife makers on here.

Is making a longer blade more difficult than a shorter one IE Does making a long Sword like blade pose different issues ( in a metallurgical ) sense than a short knife style blade , or is it purely an issue of dimensions and equipment - not many ovens I guess will take a long sword length of material.

I'm asking as I'd like a Sword ( for weird fantastical reasons... ) but I don't know if its anything I can get a maker from this forum to make or if I need to look elsewhere.

 

[Broch]

The pro's on here will answer properly but there are two issues for me as an amateur - 1) in a sword the heat treatment is trying to maintain a tough core whilst achieving a hard (but not too hard - don't want it to chip too easily) edge to sharpen 2) I now use a kiln for my heat treatment for accuracy and consistency and I couldn't get a long blade in it. I would have difficulty, with limited skills, getting a long blade heated and quenched using traditional methods.

The other problem, again, because of the lack of skill, is grinding/filing a long length neatly.

I do have a 1m length of 5mm x 50mm 01 steel when I've finally decided how I could do it - but then, for hanging on the wall it doesn't need to be heat treated

 

[TeeDee]

The pro's on here will answer properly but there are two issues for me as an amateur - 1) in a sword the heat treatment is trying to maintain a tough core whilst achieving a hard (but not too hard - don't want it to chip too easily) edge to sharpen 2) I now use a kiln for my heat treatment for accuracy and consistency and I couldn't get a long blade in it. I would have difficulty, with limited skills, getting a long blade heated and quenched using traditional methods.

The other problem, again, because of the lack of skill, is grinding/filing a long length neatly.

I do have a 1m length of 5mm x 50mm 01 steel when I've finally decided how I could do it - but then, for hanging on the wall it doesn't need to be heat treated

Didn't realise you made Knives Broc?

 

[Dave Budd]

big ol' can of worms there!

A big knife is more difficult to make than a small knife, both physically (more metal to move/grind) and technically (warpages, etc), but a sword is entirely different beast. Swords aren't just big knives, though some are closer than others; they have different tapers, harmonics, construction, etc. If you are just wanting a sword like object, then don't worry about it (functionality and technical issues didn't stop Conan or He Man!)

Are you planning to forge or make it by stock removal? And is it going to be a wall hanger or a functioning tool? If it's just a wall hanger, then you won't have to worry about it warping in the heat treating and any problems with grinding are less pronounced because temperature control isn't critical. A big knife like a parang or billhook is easy enough because they are thick and simple shapes, they are just harder work. A machete is very thin, so more likely to be a swine to keep straight, but they tend to be fairly soft so you can straighten it after too. I've made quite a lot of knives and knife-like tools in the 10-16" blade region and they are fine, keeping them straight in the forging is practice. Large kitchen knives are more tricky because they are thin as well. The ability to heat the entire length to harden it and temper it is a massive limitation

I've only made 4 swords (to see if I could) and I didn't find them a massive technical challenge, but they were a lot more work and the actual man handling them was difficult due to their length and the weight

Have a go and see how you take to it. Don't go using O1 for a sword though, it doesn't like shocks ;-) EN45 is one of the main choices for those things

 

[Broch]

Didn't realise you made Knives Broc?

I make knives as tools mainly; not some of the beautiful masterpieces you see on here - I am always in awe at the skill level shown here. In fact, my current every day knife tool that I use working in the wood is one that I had given up on and thrown to the back of the workbench because I made a few mistakes on it. I came across it clearing up one day and just decided to finish it and put a handle on - it's not pretty (I daren't even put a photo up) but it's been the best knife I've owned for actually working with. Anything I make that looks at all tidy I end up giving away

Have a go and see how you take to it. Don't go using O1 for a sword though, it doesn't like shocks ;-) EN45 is one of the main choices for those things

I agree, but I wasn't planning on going to war with it (definitely just a wall hanger) - a straightened leaf spring would be better than my 01 I appreciate.

 

[Stew]

Can I suggest you go on one of Owen Bush’s sword making classes.

 

[TeeDee]

big ol' can of worms there!

A big knife is more difficult to make than a small knife, both physically (more metal to move/grind) and technically (warpages, etc), but a sword is entirely different beast. Swords aren't just big knives, though some are closer than others; they have different tapers, harmonics, construction, etc. If you are just wanting a sword like object, then don't worry about it (functionality and technical issues didn't stop Conan or He Man!)

Are you planning to forge or make it by stock removal? And is it going to be a wall hanger or a functioning tool? If it's just a wall hanger, then you won't have to worry about it warping in the heat treating and any problems with grinding are less pronounced because temperature control isn't critical. A big knife like a parang or billhook is easy enough because they are thick and simple shapes, they are just harder work. A machete is very thin, so more likely to be a swine to keep straight, but they tend to be fairly soft so you can straighten it after too. I've made quite a lot of knives and knife-like tools in the 10-16" blade region and they are fine, keeping them straight in the forging is practice. Large kitchen knives are more tricky because they are thin as well. The ability to heat the entire length to harden it and temper it is a massive limitation

I've only made 4 swords (to see if I could) and I didn't find them a massive technical challenge, but they were a lot more work and the actual man handling them was difficult due to their length and the weight

Have a go and see how you take to it. Don't go using O1 for a sword though, it doesn't like shocks ;-) EN45 is one of the main choices for those things

The child in me wants this. I'm guessing this is Stock Removal.

The Apokatana

When vastly outnumbered by your enemies, every student of the art of war knows that speed, stealth, and smarts are all you've got. For the runnin' and gunnin' warrior who knows how to choose his battles and vigilantly maintain a corridor of retreat, ZT offers the Apokatana, our take on the...

www.zombietools.net

 

[Broch]

Yep, definitely beyond my skill level - I do like the Japanese swords though; real grace in their shape.

I fancy something a little more early Iron Age - but that's more because I'm fascinated by pre-Roman Britain.

I also fancy making one of these - well, along the lines of the Cleddyd/leaf sword at least

 

[sunndog]

Have you looked at cold steel stuff? Like their cutlass maybe

 

[bobnewboy]

Yep, definitely beyond my skill level - I do like the Japanese swords though; real grace in their shape.

I fancy something a little more early Iron Age - but that's more because I'm fascinated by pre-Roman Britain.

I also fancy making one of these - well, along the lines of the Cleddyd/leaf sword at least

View attachment 59006

You could do like I did - a Will Lord bronze casting course. He still lists them on his website, but the price has gone up considerably - even if it was allowed to run! It was excellent fun however - two days of muck, malachite, tin, sand and other mess, during which time I made an Ewart Park (leaf) bronze sword.

 

[TeeDee]

Can I suggest you go on one of Owen Bush’s sword making classes.

Whom?? Linky?

You could do like I did - a Will Lord bronze casting course. He still lists them on his website, but the price has gone up considerably - even if it was allowed to run! It was excellent fun however - two days of muck, malachite, tin, sand and other mess, during which time I made an Ewart Park (leaf) bronze sword.

Photos

 

[bobnewboy]

Whom?? Linky?



Photos

I was just searching for the original post I made. It is here: Original post .

and link: https://www.will-lord.co.uk/events/bronze-age-workshop-19th-20th-june-2020/

I made it without a work hardened edge, so it isn’t a user, but was very interesting to make all of it - including the bronze and ‘forge’. There are more photos in my Flickr link.

Cheers, Bob

 

[bobnewboy]

Even easier, here’s a link to the Flickr album: Flickr album

 

[Stew]

Whom?? Linky?



Photos

5 Day Sword Course | Owen Bush

 

[Broch]

Ouch!

 

[Herman30]

Ouch!

You can get one cheaper from Albion Swords. https://www.albion-swords.com/

 

[Broch]

You can get one cheaper from Albion Swords. https://www.albion-swords.com/

Ah, but it's the making of your own sword that gives it a soul

 

[petrochemicals]

Just a quick question for the Knife makers on here.

Is making a longer blade more difficult than a shorter one IE Does making a long Sword like blade pose different issues ( in a metallurgical ) sense than a short knife style blade , or is it purely an issue of dimensions and equipment - not many ovens I guess will take a long sword length of material.

I'm asking as I'd like a Sword ( for weird fantastical reasons... ) but I don't know if its anything I can get a maker from this forum to make or if I need to look elsewhere.

Propper european swords are made from different steels flexible middle hard edges. That would also be said of some knives that are welded grades, but not most, only the highest quality, woodlores are all the same billet. Trouble is that swords for hitting other swords undergo massive stress, i should think it is akin to hitting the crowbar off concrete, which is very very unpleasant on the hands.

 

[Herman30]

Ah, but it's the making of your own sword that gives it a soul

Me, on the other hand, would never want a sword made by me. I want perfection.

 

[Dave Budd]

Propper european swords are made from different steels flexible middle hard edges. That would also be said of some knives that are welded grades, but not most, only the highest quality, woodlores are all the same billet. Trouble is that swords for hitting other swords undergo massive stress, i should think it is akin to hitting the crowbar off concrete, which is very very unpleasant on the hands.

well, some are

Through out the last few thousand years of iron swords in Europe they have been made from a single bit of iron with hammered edges, iron core with steel edges, laminated/twisted core (normally iron and steel) with steel edges, and for the largest part of the time just a single bit of steel.