knife law clarification

[californian_in_london]

Hello there, I am a new member and this is my first post.

A little background: I am from California, and am a hiker/backpacker/etc., and will be attending a Masters program in London starting in a few weeks. I found this site while researching places in the UK to go backpacking on weekends and holidays, and have read many of the threads here- thank you to everyone for your helpful insight.

That being said, I have a rather specific question regarding UK knife law that I have been unable to figure out from the threads and the texts of the applicable laws; namely, whether it is lawful for me to import a knife that is considered an offensive weapon for the purposes of every day carry. I have a small knife collection and, being from California, there are very few laws regarding what we can or cannot lawfully own and/or carry here in the states. I want to bring my 6" Benchmade fixed blade with me for camping and backpacking trips (and understand that it is legal so long as I keep it at home when not on such a trip), but I don't know if it will make it through customs in my checked luggage. So my question is: will I lose my knife and/or face repercussions for bringing this knife into the UK? I don't want to risk anything and I will gladly leave it here in the US if there is any question, but any and all help you all could provide would be much appreciated. It would be a valuable tool and would avoid me having to make a purchase of such a knife once in the UK if I knew beforehand that I would be fine legally to bring it with me.

Thank you for your time and I hope to contribute and continue to gain insight from this site in the future.

 

[Robbi]

it will be fine in your hold luggage mate, no probs at all.

Oh, and welcome to the site and the UK in a couple of weeks, hope you enjoy yourself here and keep us updated with your adventures

Robbi

 

[Barn Owl]

I'd just buy a knife when you get here mate.

I don't really know what it's like coming in from USA but I think it'd be impossible to take a knife into the States from this side of the pond.

As I say, I'm not sure though.

 

[santaman2000]

I'd just buy a knife when you get here mate.

I don't really know what it's like coming in from USA but I think it'd be impossible to take a knife into the States from this side of the pond.

As I say, I'm not sure though.

No. That one I can answer. It's no problem bringing a knife into the US unless it's a switchblade. The same rules apply about it being in checked baggage though and NOT in carry-on.

However, if it's particularly valuable, take proof with you that you had it before you left the States so you don't have to pay duty on it when returning; same advice for anything particularly valuable.

 

[Barn Owl]

Thanks santaman.

I thought the U.S were a bit more officious regarding incoming tools nowadays.

 

[santaman2000]

Yeah but mostly in hand carry. The import laws haven't changed much, they're just concerned what a passenger has to hand while in flight. Explosive material of course is another matter.

 

[stovie]

I have taken sharps into both USA and Canada and back again with no issues whatsoever. Took 3 moras, a leatherman and a WD folder into british colombia three weeks back...Not to mention a folding saw and other kit...You wont have any probs...

Now, openly carrying it down the street...that's another matter...

 

[FGYT]

Hello there, I am a new member and this is my first post.

A little background: I am from California, and am a hiker/backpacker/etc., and will be attending a Masters program in London starting in a few weeks. I found this site while researching places in the UK to go backpacking on weekends and holidays, and have read many of the threads here- thank you to everyone for your helpful insight.

That being said, I have a rather specific question regarding UK knife law that I have been unable to figure out from the threads and the texts of the applicable laws; namely, whether it is lawful for me to import a knife that is considered an offensive weapon for the purposes of every day carry. I have a small knife collection and, being from California, there are very few laws regarding what we can or cannot lawfully own and/or carry here in the states. I want to bring my 6" Benchmade fixed blade with me for camping and backpacking trips (and understand that it is legal so long as I keep it at home when not on such a trip), but I don't know if it will make it through customs in my checked luggage. So my question is: will I lose my knife and/or face repercussions for bringing this knife into the UK? I don't want to risk anything and I will gladly leave it here in the US if there is any question, but any and all help you all could provide would be much appreciated. It would be a valuable tool and would avoid me having to make a purchase of such a knife once in the UK if I knew beforehand that I would be fine legally to bring it with me.

Thank you for your time and I hope to contribute and continue to gain insight from this site in the future.

with out seeing it i could be wrong

BUT a 6" fixed knife Isnt an offensive weapon unless used as one and you can carry and use it on a trip if the trip gives good reason to need a knife etc

ATB

Duncan

 

[spandit]

You can buy larger knives in the UK (for cooking etc.) so no reason a 6" blade would be a problem unless you're planning on going out stabbing with it. In that case, a 1" blade would be an offensive weapon

I've bought knives in the USA (because Leathermans are so cheap in Target!!) with no problems. I've had my hold luggage searched by the TSA but they're not looking for inert bits of metal

 

[santaman2000]

...Now, openly carrying it down the street...that's another matter...

Or into the secure area of an airport on either side of the Atlantic. LOL Pack it in you checked luggage.

 

[Karl82]

i would say if its a knife you worryed about loseing then i suggest you leave it at home and buy yourself a cheap knife like a mora cliper for £10 here. when carrying a knife thats more than 3 inches thats a fixed or folding make sure you pack it where its NOT easy to get to and if you stoped by the police let them know you have a knife in your pack and its your camp knife/bushcraft knife. The police will feal more at ease if your honest and show you have nothing to hide. hope this helps and hope you have a good trip over here.

 

[ateallthepies]

with out seeing it i could be wrong

BUT a 6" fixed knife Isnt an offensive weapon unless used as one and you can carry and use it on a trip if the trip gives good reason to need a knife etc

ATB

Duncan

Isn't the fact of just having a fixed blade on your person when not having a good reason to make the blade a offensive weapon? I'm sure it's just the possession of it and not the use that can make the item 'offensive'? I'm always watching UK police shows where they find a fixed blade in a car after a stop and charge the owner with being in possession of an offensive weapon even though it was not used.

Steve.

 

[spandit]

Isn't the fact of just having a fixed blade on your person when not having a good reason to make the blade a offensive weapon? I'm sure it's just the possession of it and not the use that can make the item 'offensive'? I'm always watching UK police shows where they find a fixed blade in a car after a stop and charge the owner with being in possession of an offensive weapon even though it was not used.

If you had a 6" kitchen knife in the packet or in a bag with other kitchen stuff, I'm sure you'd be OK. If it was hidden under a seat then that's a different matter.

 

[nigeltm]

Isn't the fact of just having a fixed blade on your person when not having a good reason to make the blade a offensive weapon? I'm sure it's just the possession of it and not the use that can make the item 'offensive'? I'm always watching UK police shows where they find a fixed blade in a car after a stop and charge the owner with being in possession of an offensive weapon even though it was not used.

Steve.

A knife which is not a sub 3" non-locking folder being carried in public without a reasonable excuse isn't an offensive weapon.

If you don't have a reasonable excus then you could be charged with having a bladed or pointed article in a public place. To be guilty of this offence you only need to have a knife, screwdriver, sharpened stick, etc in your posession or somehere you have ready access to (e.g. door pocket of the car) without a good reason. For example, a 12" bowie in your rucksack on the way to a meet is legal, while a 3.5" kitchen knife in the car door pocket while out for a drive isn't.

Where this is a risk to bushcrafters is the definition of a reasonable excuse. Simply put, there isn't one!

Initially it is up to the Police officer to decide if your excuse reasonable. If they are satisfied then you can go on your way. However, in these days of media and political pressure and public hysteria they are more likely to play it safe and either arrest for bladed article or ask you to disclaim the knife and have it confiscated and destroyed. if you are arrested it is then down to the custody officer and CPS to decide if it is taken further. There have been many (sometimes heated) threads on UKPoliceOnline.co.uk and other forums on what is a reasonable excuse. Unfortunatley a number of Police officers (including a couple of friends of mine) are either not fully aware of the legislation, have personal agendas (even stating that all knives are weapons!) or simply cover their a*se.

As far as offensive weapons go, there are clear criteria that must be met for an item (not specifically a knife) to be considered an offensive weapon.

Firstly, the item may be specifically prohibited and listed as an offensive weapon. For example, a punch dagger, concealed blades (e.g. sword cane), flick knife, butterfly knife, extending batons or throwing stars/shuriken.

Secondly, the item may be designed to be a weapon (e.g. Fairbur Sykes commando dagger)

Thirdly, the item may be adapted to be a weapon. Not really relevant to knives but this does cover other weapons, such as 4" nails driven through the end of a baseball bat.

Fourthly, the item may be intended to be a weapon. ANY item may be considered an offensive weapon if the person uses it in a threatening manner (e.g. waving a bottle in someones face and threatening to smack them one!) or is carrying with the intent to use it as a weapon even if that is for self-defence (e.g. can of hairspray in the handbag to spray in a muggers eyes).

All of this covered in the Criminal Justice Act 1988, the Prevention of Crime Act 1953, amendments to the Acts and case law (e.g. DPP vs Harris, 1994, ruled that lock knives are classed as fixed blades for the purposes of the Sect 139 exception to the CJA '88).

I hop this helps and wasn't too boring!

Nigel.

 

[FGYT]

Isn't the fact of just having a fixed blade on your person when not having a good reason to make the blade a offensive weapon? I'm sure it's just the possession of it and not the use that can make the item 'offensive'? I'm always watching UK police shows where they find a fixed blade in a car after a stop and charge the owner with being in possession of an offensive weapon even though it was not used.

Steve.

no im pretty sure for offensive weapon to be brought in you have to have more than just carry it

The term 'offensive weapon' is defined as: "any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use"

so for any normal blade they have to prove Intent

so a large blade under your car seat in easy reach the police can reasonable argue its only there for defense there for intended to be used as an offensive weapon under

Section 1 Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (Offensive Weapons) (Archbold 24-106 to 24-124)

if its in your pack in the boot and you forgot to take it out from a weekend and nipped down the shops and by some miracle of policing and a lot of bad luck they found it you would be charged with having a fixed blade with no reason under

Section 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988 ( Bladed and Pointed Articles) (Archbold 24-125 to24-128)

Link to CPS
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a01

 

[ateallthepies]

Thanks nigel and fgyt,

Perhaps the cop shows I have seen where this was the issue the person was already in trouble for something else and the blade was subsequently found?

I see now that intent or actual usage have to be proved for an item to be classed as offensive. So a section 1 offence would be more serious than a section 139 offence?

Steve.

 

[Martyn]

Hello there, I am a new member and this is my first post.

A little background: I am from California, and am a hiker/backpacker/etc., and will be attending a Masters program in London starting in a few weeks. I found this site while researching places in the UK to go backpacking on weekends and holidays, and have read many of the threads here- thank you to everyone for your helpful insight.

That being said, I have a rather specific question regarding UK knife law that I have been unable to figure out from the threads and the texts of the applicable laws; namely, whether it is lawful for me to import a knife that is considered an offensive weapon for the purposes of every day carry. I have a small knife collection and, being from California, there are very few laws regarding what we can or cannot lawfully own and/or carry here in the states. I want to bring my 6" Benchmade fixed blade with me for camping and backpacking trips (and understand that it is legal so long as I keep it at home when not on such a trip), but I don't know if it will make it through customs in my checked luggage. So my question is: will I lose my knife and/or face repercussions for bringing this knife into the UK? I don't want to risk anything and I will gladly leave it here in the US if there is any question, but any and all help you all could provide would be much appreciated. It would be a valuable tool and would avoid me having to make a purchase of such a knife once in the UK if I knew beforehand that I would be fine legally to bring it with me.

Thank you for your time and I hope to contribute and continue to gain insight from this site in the future.

You can take your knife to and from the US-UK in your checked luggage with no problems whatsoever. If you have a random search at customs, they may ask you what it's for, but "camping" is fine and it will not be confiscated - categorically.

 

[ged]

To answer the OP's specific question, in the UK there are quite a lot of bladed items that you can't legally own, never mind carry on your person. A 'bushcraft' style knife isn't one of them and it's unlikely to be confiscated by UK customs. But if it's something you're very fond of then consider the possibility that it might be stolen by the airport baggage handlers, or simply lost, along with all your other baggage. That's happened to me.

I don't know your particular Benchmade, perhaps you can post a link. Anything that is made as a weapon (most double-edged blades for example) would be more of a risk than I'd want to take. Even though you can legally own such things in the UK, you would probably be arrested if you were found carrying one in a public place.

 

[nigeltm]

Hi Steve,

No worries, happy to help

Perhaps the cop shows I have seen where this was the issue the person was already in trouble for something else and the blade was subsequently found?

The problem with the cop shows is that they are played for maximum drama. They aren't there to represent the truth, just gain ratings. So they misrepresent (intentionally or not) the situation to make it exciting. A classic example was where the Police raided a flat and found a number of interesting items. One was a fairly big (but not too big) lock knife. The TV narrator went on about how this was an offensive weapon. In fact it wasn't an offensive weapon as it was just a lock knife found in a draw and a knife cannot be classed as an offensive weapon within your own home. You have to be in a public place! It also doesn't help that some of the Police Officers on the show make mistakes (or at least the editing of the show makes it look so) and do not always get the law right. This misrepresents the law and causes confusion and fuels the media hysteria and political pointscoring surrounding knives.

You should see some of the postings on Police forums having a go at the less knowladgable coppers. Make for interesting and entertaining reading!

I see now that intent or actual usage have to be proved for an item to be classed as offensive. So a section 1 offence would be more serious than a section 139 offence?

I can't remember the details of the penatlies set out under the Acts but the maximum is the same for either offensive weapon or bladed/pointed article. Although given the choice I know which I'd rather have come up on a CRB check!

 

[Martyn]

For clarification, it's probably easier just to list the items you can NOT bring into the country as they are on the banned weapons list. Although technically not illegal to own, it is illegal to manufacture or sell these items in the UK and would probably be seized if found in your checked luggage as they are defined in UK law as "weapons" per se, but pretty much anything else is perfectly legal....

* Balisong or butterfly knife
* Knuckleduster
* Telescopic truncheon
* Push dagger
* Shuriken, shaken, or death star
* Handclaw
* Footclaw
* Manrikgusari or kusari (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip)
* Swordstick
* Hollow kubotan (cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes)
* Blowpipe or blowgun
* Kusari gama (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle)
* Kyoketsu shoge (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife)
* Belt buckle knife
* Disguised knife (a knife that is designed to be passed off as an innocuous object)
* Stealth knife (a knife that cannot be detected by metal detectors)

HTH.