I've made some steels for use with flint but have run into trouble.

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Handmade Matt

Tenderfoot
Oct 22, 2011
92
0
Surrey
I used the ends of some farriers rasps which are carbon steel.
They worked great and produced lots of sparks with flint.

I wanted to drill a hole in one to attach a lanyard but it's hardened steel (being a file) and I couldn't drill it.
So in order to anneal it (soften it) I heated it in my home made forge (but not to hot, not even glowing) and then left it to cool for a good few hours.

The problem is, since doing this it wont spark with flint any more!?!?
I would have thought being softer that it would be better at sparking?

Can anyone help educate me, or advise me how I can put the spark back in my life? :p
Many thanks.
 

Everything Mac

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 30, 2009
3,112
83
36
Scotland
You have softened the steel. Making the grain structure too large to produce sparks.

You need to re-harden the steel. Do this by bringing the heat up to a good bright orange and dunk it into water. When you dunk - do it rapidly for half a second then bring it out. do this twice and then put it in the water and keep it there and swill it around.

This will make the steel very hard and will produce good sparks.

Putting it in the water and keeping it there will probably cause it to crack.

Andy
 

Handmade Matt

Tenderfoot
Oct 22, 2011
92
0
Surrey
That's counter intuitive for me. I would have thought softer steel would spark better. Unless, I guess it's the brittleness of hardened steel that allows sparks to fly off when chipped. As opposed to a soft metal just being dented by the flint.
I've made a few knives, experimenting with annealing and hardening steel so I'm familiar with it all. I'll give it a try.
I'm learning everyday. Many thanks.
 
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Everything Mac

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 30, 2009
3,112
83
36
Scotland
That's counter intuitive for me. I would have thought softer steel would spark better. Unless, I guess it's the brittleness of hardened steel that allows sparks to fly off when chipped. As opposed to a soft metal just being dented by the flint.
I've made a few knives, experimenting with annealing and hardening steel so I'm familiar with it all. I'll give it a try.
I'm learning everyday. Many thanks.

There is a cut off point - it needs to have at least a certain amount of hardness to work.

Farriers rasps are only medium carbon steel iirc.

Soft steel just won't work.

Have a play. - I don't anneal my strikers afterwards and they produce very good sparks.

All the best
Andy
 

Whittler Kev

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 8, 2009
4,314
12
65
March, UK
bushcraftinfo.blogspot.com
Harden it up again I reckon.
Fine line between sparks and dents when annealing. I don't anneal but have tried sequential hardening with mixed results.
Mine are always hard so they spark without bashing them. You just need to put the flint and striker together and slid the striker hard and fast down the flint. Everyone appears to be able to use them and I have made several sets for demonstrations and instructors.
Off side off this is though they are brittle and if bashed they will break unless chunky.
Could be why the time team keeps unearthing broken ones that still spark though ;)
 

JJJ

Tenderfoot
Nov 22, 2008
53
0
cumbria
Certainly enjoyed your blog Matt, its got me wondering what future projects are ticking over in your head.

As has been said...harden them again, but I suggest you look up 'Normalising' ( Thermocycling as they say in the US) and 'Soaking'.

Whenever you heat steel or work it you increase the grain structure as Mac said and make it brittle. Tempering will not solve this problem.

99% of broken knives I see are because the maker has omitted this stage. Either it a bushcrafter, who has followed online instructions, that can all be traced back to one bloke who didn't normalise when making a knife from a file, or it a maker who has decided to make his stock removal knives look like they have been forged by hammering the heated steel.



Fire steels suffer from this even more than knives, because they have to be forged . They will certainly have enlarged grain and then are left in a fully harden state.

There is lots of stuff on the net that explains how self taught blacksmiths finally discover this step and no longer have the problem of clients dropping and shattering their steels.



Basically every time a traditional blacksmith heats and works a carbon steel, he will, before heat treating, heat the steel to cherry and let it cool slowly to all colour has gone. A bit like annealing, but it doesn't have to cool as far, Some guys do this a few times and have tricks or theories of their own. All of them though will return the steel to a fine grain that if as an experiment was snapped, couldn't be seen with a naked eye.Next time someone says their knife has snapped, ask them if they can see grain,



Soaking , is another step that seems to be missed out in our internet bushcraft world. Lots of us start with files and springs, liking the idea of recycling and cheap materials, but soon turn to O1 steel as files are unreliable. O1 comes flat in any width, ready annealed and can just need shaping , hardening, then tempering.

If though its soaked for 10 mins at cherry ( its quenching colour as this varies between steels) the edge will be noticable better. Cherry by the way is the moment steel cools just enough to regain its magnetism, not when it is non-magnetised.



I can't emphaise enough how important a step normalising is and would like to see it return to a normal part of smithing in bushcraft.

Here are a few more tips as we seem to be travelling down the same path



Temper in an oven. I do use a blow torch for small tools, but again steel improves dramatically by being soaked at this stage. Some guys even Temper a few times in a kitchen oven. Roughly for O1 its an hour at 220C and files you might do at 240 or250C . Look at the steel manufacturers info sheets for details.



Softening the spine can be done with a torch as you have done but you still need to temper the edge to at least a dark straw colour.

If you don't have a hardeness tester" beast "your blades. Abuse them on hard woods and knots before you but a handle on , because then it easy to reheat treat.



Two other ways to keep the spine soft, and get a hamon as well, are to either partially quench the blade or to put fire clay where you want to keep the steel soft.


Finally forget files and springs in favour of old circular saw blades. The older the better, folk gasp when they first try them. Even better, forget trying O1 and go straight for Silver Steel . I love Silversteel as a wood carver, its not used much over here as it comes in round bar and needs to be forged flat, most Finnish knives are made of it and here it is so cheap.



Anyway enough from me,I could rabbit a bout steel for hours, I look forward to seeing your next projects

John
 
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nic.

Forager
Mar 21, 2011
176
0
Mid Wales
Annealing is generally good practice as it will refine the grain in a similar way that normailsing does.

Small or large grain size is not the reason that the steel stopped sparking, it just needs to be hard to spark, this is, in broad terms irrespective of grain size. For a knife small grain size is desirable as it helps the finished blade to be tougher. In a chunky striker it is not so important.

Quenching ( hardening ) the steel won't really affect the grain size if it done at the right temperature.

when it comes to strikers soaking the steel at a too high temperature then hardening wil, if the steel doesn't crack give slightly better sparks; a larger grain size seems to help slightly for sparking. it would make a bad knife blade but different rules apply here. If the design is chunky enough you can get away without tempering ( softening ) and you will maintain optimimum sparking.
 
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