Is single layer ventile waterproof; is double layer breathable?

[Tagaeri]

Title says it all really. Looking to get a non-synthetic 'waterproof' (because I run hot and I need something tough). Been looking at epic cotton and ventile (though the cost of the later is a little ridiculous really). I know that double layer ventile is what is really needed to be waterproof but I'm worried that might be warm/heavy, so could I get away with single layer? Thanks!

 

[bushbro1]

Ive found Single layer fine on trousers but it tends to wet out in heavy rain. I got some trousers with double ventile knees but single layer for the rest. the knees are waterproof but the rest soon gets saturated although being trousers its not quite as bad as a single ventile top. To be honest i find e-vent a much much better garment. Its bomb proof and lighter

 

[treadlightly]

Single ventile is not waterproof. But, combined with a wool base layer, it manages rain pretty well. Water will come through it but it dries pretty fast and is very breathable. Epic works in a similar way except its silicone fibre coating repels more water initially but it will eventually come through. Dries faster than ventile in my experience.

 

[copper_head]

Regular proofing can really improve single layer Ventile, a bit like Paramo I guess.

 

[Tiley]

Regular proofing can really improve single layer Ventile, a bit like Paramo I guess.

I always thought that, because of the nature of the weave and material, you shouldn't proof Ventile. I suppose the theory behind it is that if the threads are encapsulated by whichever proofing agent you use, they cannot swell when wet and therefore become less efficient as a water resistant fabric.

In answer to the question, single isn't waterproof per se, just about water resistant; double isn't that breathable either. Add to that the length of time it takes to dry Ventile while out there doing stuff and I reckon you might be better off with the Epic stuff. Alternatively, get a single Ventile jacket and a Dutch Army Goretex liner for when the heavens open in a sustained fashion.

 

[copper_head]

I always thought that, because of the nature of the weave and material, you shouldn't proof Ventile. I suppose the theory behind it is that if the threads are encapsulated by whichever proofing agent you use, they cannot swell when wet and therefore become less efficient as a water resistant fabric.

In my experience this isn't the case and certainly my Snowsled came with a proofing agent on it. I use Grangers 2 in 1 cleaner & proofer.

*Edit: Looked into it a bit as I was worried I might actually be damaging my Ventile. Looks like its recommended; link to the Ventile website page.*

 

[Tagaeri]

Thanks for the info everyone. Is there a noticeable difference in terms of waterproofness between a single layer ventile and polycotton (which dries quickly, can be waxed in wet-through points and is cheap)?

 

[copper_head]

Thanks for the info everyone. Is there a noticeable difference in terms of waterproofness between a single layer ventile and polycotton (which dries quickly, can be waxed in wet-through points and is cheap)?

I've never used Polycotton as my waterproof shell so can't speak from experience but I'd imagine Ventile is significantly more waterproof even without any DWR treatment.

 

[bambodoggy]

Regular proofing can really improve single layer Ventile, a bit like Paramo I guess.

Surely you can make anything waterproof if you treat it with enough gunk? Tar paper? Wax jackets? I also was under the impression that ventile was supposed to swell and become waterproof of its own accord.

I've got a westwins single layer ventile and to answer the original question...no, it's not waterproof. Light shower proof at a push but not waterproof in the way a kagool or a gortex or sympertex is lol

 

[Inky]

Thanks for the info everyone. Is there a noticeable difference in terms of waterproofness between a single layer ventile and polycotton (which dries quickly, can be waxed in wet-through points and is cheap)?

Think that pretty much sums up my view of ventile, it is no more waterproof than treated pollycotton but it is very expensive. I think people just think it's very 'bushcraft' when all it really is is old fashioned.

 

[copper_head]

Surely you can make anything waterproof if you treat it with enough gunk? Tar paper? Wax jackets? I also was under the impression that ventile was supposed to swell and become waterproof of its own accord.

I've got a westwins single layer ventile and to answer the original question...no, it's not waterproof. Light shower proof at a push but not waterproof in the way a kagool or a gortex or sympertex is lol

True enough I suppose, but I think improve is the operative word. It is showerproof in its own right. I like RG98's way of putting it, to consider it as a soft shell but with all the benefits associated with natural fabrics. I don't expect it too keep me 100% dry while climbing a rain swept hill (I've never found a jacket that will deal with heavy rain and hard physical activity without wetting out). But for woodland use where the rain is diffused I think it really shines. Just my experience of course and your results may vary .

 

[Chiseller]

it is no more waterproof than treated pollycotton but it is very expensive. I think people just think it's very 'bushcraft' when all it really is is old fashioned.

Roflmao

Tweed could also be called 'old fashioned' thing is , quality hard wearing , weather beating gear isn't a fashion ....it's what it is. Quality hardwearing functional in the environment it is designed for. Imho of course

 

[Inky]

Roflmao

Tweed could also be called 'old fashioned' thing is , quality hard wearing , weather beating gear isn't a fashion ....it's what it is. Quality hardwearing functional in the environment it is designed for. Imho of course

It might well be all those things but it's also very expensive and not waterproof, so I guess my point is that you could wear an army surplus jacket or similar for £20, treat it, make it pretty showerproof but ultimately get soaked in a serious downpour or spend £200 and still get soaked in the same downpour.

 

[copper_head]

It might well be all those things but it's also very expensive and not waterproof, so I guess my point is that you could wear an army surplus jacket or similar for £20, treat it, make it pretty showerproof but ultimately get soaked in a serious downpour or spend £200 and still get soaked in the same downpour.

Thing is when the proofing wore out on your surplus jacket you'd get very wet, the Ventile would continue to function. Some more reading for you here.

 

[Imagedude]

I have a Bergans Morgedal smock made from Epic fabric. It is wind proof (just) and will resist a very light shower. It is slightly more breathable than Goretex but not as good as Paramo. It is probably more spark resistant than man-made fibres and wont offend the sensibilities of the Bushcraft Fashion Police (BFP).

 

[British Red]

Ventile is wholly different than polycotton - treated or otherwise. The difference with Ventile is that it actually changes its nature when wet. The fibres swell and knit together greatly increasing its water resistance. It goes stiff as the fibres swell. So when dry it has large pores and can be comfortably worn. If you are "caught in the rain" it swells and, whilst not 100% waterproof shrugs off most of the wet. A wool layer underneath keeps you toasty and warm, even in a downpour. The thing is, you do then need to be able to dry it out, so if you are on some long trip, in permanently wet, cold miserable and unpleasant weather (you know - Scotland in the Summer) with no ability at night to dry it out, then its not for you. Snow - excellent. Alternating wet and dry - superb. As a jacket for a working man outdoors (farmers etc.), absolutely top. It washes and repairs easily, you don't get the sweaty fug of synthetics.

Lets put it this way - my £400 Harkila suit rarely gets worn. My Ventile goes on most days - even working outdoors in Winter rain, I pefer the Ventile with a wool shirt under. I may get a little damp leaking through - but less than I would sweat in the top end synthetics.

 

[Laurentius]

I expect it depends upon the individual, some people sweat more than others so wet out on the inside. I am one of them. I have a Morgedal. If I were to improve it I would put a double layer over the shoulders, which is the only place it lets water in during a heavy downpour.

 

[Buckshot]

Personally I prefer a coat to be waterproof myself. Isn't that the point?
I love the idea of older fabrics but in the end when I'm wearing a coat it's because I don't want to get wet.
As a windproof Ventile works well though

Each to their own I guess

 

[Inky]

Ventile is wholly different than polycotton - treated or otherwise.

Yes but rain is rain and once your wet your wet. Of course you can wear wool and be wet and warm, you don't need anything over you for that, but I stand by my point. Ventile is a nice fabric but I don't believe that it out performs treated pollycotton to the extent that it justifies the x10 price tag. Moreover, once wet I'd rather have something that I might be able to dry out quickly. As someone said, if you don't want to get wet wear a waterproof coat. As a windproof and all round tough jacket I don't think there is that much in it between ventile and pollycotton but if you have the cash then why not I guess.

 

[Graveworm]

You can wear a fleece and be wet and warm or a softshell but the difference is they are not natural, will dry much quicker, weigh much less, are less resistant to flame and, even with the best treatments, still seem more pongy. I also much prefer the feel and look of wool. (Although sheep are much worse for the environment than any manufacturing process) .

Wool is another ventile. It doesn't perform any better than synthetics at keeping you warm when wet, it does perform better than Cotton which is what all the literature cleverly says. It is more traditional feeling and looks the part.