Is "preparedness" a state of mind?

[TeeDee]

I think it needs a community effort really. Very few of us have acerage enough to grow it all.

I'm lucky, I'm friends with the local poacher....he and my wee bother used to roam and hunt together....but he forages too, and he grows, and so do I, and so do a fair number of others around us.

So, H has a surplus of leeks and tomatoes, and I'm overwhelmed with apples and rasps, chillis and rhubarb and P is trying to use up pears, while Mrs R round the corner has so many peas and carrots......you get the idea ?

H turned up with half a stone of sloes last year ( and a brace of pheasants and another of ducks), but the squirrels got most of his pears, so P happily passed along and he shared the sloes and spuds too. Then my quince ripened....

Spread it around, and everyone gets fed

That sounds like its workable for the rural idyll - not so sure if that was the more common scenario being depicted.

In rural locations I think their is due to less population density less < looking for a word > friction??? When things go a little sideway? Of what support is typically in place ( utilities, services etc ) tends to be more an after thought and people get used to that.

 

[Pattree]

I actually tell a version of Aesop’s Ant and Grasshopper story with a twist. While the outcome is the same, the moral (I dislike that term) is very different.
(I also tell the story of the three little wolves and the big bad pig.)

I cannot imagine a scenario where those who held reserves had hung onto them and watched while fellow humans in their own community went cold and hungry. Fortunately it is not what we are seeing across the world’s crisis zones today.

What would I want those people (non-peppers) to do?
Assemble with the rest of the community and offer whatever resources or skills, however apparently little, they had in order to rebuild the community.

I freely admit that I am stereotyping a gung-ho, go it alone survivalist.
However, just reading the prepper’s own statements in three forums (including this one) I get the impression that, in some cases, there are hopes for some sort of anarchical individually self reliant existence. An extreme example was an explanation as to why an American prepper needed to be allowed to buy 1500 rounds of ammunition for his rifle.

Survival shall almost certainly require organisation, leadership, compassion and (sorry) politics.


As has been said above, I do not think of my 5kg of rice, 2kg of oats and an open fire that have got me over six days without power in the 1970’s, as “Prepping”. It’s just called a cupboard.

 

[TeeDee]

What would I want those people (non-peppers) to do?

I actually meant what would you want those that identify themselves as Preppers to do.

 

[Broch]

That sounds like its workable for the rural idyll - not so sure if that was the more common scenario being depicted.

In rural locations I think their is due to less population density less < looking for a word > friction??? When things go a little sideway? Of what support is typically in place ( utilities, services etc ) tends to be more an after thought and people get used to that.

That may be because in the rural community everyone is reasonably prepared for 'rural' problems - power cuts, loss of water supply, floods ..., and most people are 'capable' of getting on in difficult times, so one doesn't feel that we are helping people that just couldn't be bothered and more a wholly supported effort of a community of mixed resources and skills (not sure that says what I mean but I've had a few glasses of wine ).

 

[Pattree]

I actually meant what would you want those that identify themselves as Preppers to do.

The same.

 

[TeeDee]

That may be because in the rural community everyone is reasonably prepared for 'rural' problems - power cuts, loss of water supply, floods ..., and most people are 'capable' of getting on in difficult times, so one doesn't feel that we are helping people that just couldn't be bothered and more a wholly supported effort of a community of mixed resources and skills (not sure that says what I mean but I've had a few glasses of wine ).

Yes , sorry if i was unclear , but yes - my feeling and point exact - they are in someways ' frontier ' minded by their geographic location.

 

[HorseGuy]

The thought of going it alone fills me with dread.
But the thought of a village of people working together fills me with hope.

 

[Chris]

But also people living in cities are often in more cramped accommodation, separated from the realities of rural life and probably don't have quite the same opportunities to become and remain self reliant. I can't say it's really their fault either.

My comment about it being a spectrum earlier is something to keep in mind. Because there really are the apocalypse dreamers who want to sit in their bunker on their own with tins of beans and a fantasy of how they'd fight off the unprepared hoards.

Personally I think what TeeDee said about putting your own mask on before helping others is the ideal, being a genuinely useful person to help a wider community to thrive is what I think humans are built for.

 

[Toddy]

That sounds like its workable for the rural idyll - not so sure if that was the more common scenario being depicted.

In rural locations I think their is due to less population density less < looking for a word > friction??? When things go a little sideway? Of what support is typically in place ( utilities, services etc ) tends to be more an after thought and people get used to that.

But I don't live in a rural idyll....I live slap bang in the middle of the central belt of Scotland, and what were distinct villages are now joined up conurbations
It's quiet and peaceful though, and at heart the population is mostly 'local', we all kind of grew up in this area, we know it, our grandparents knew it.
Neighbours talk to each other, for the most part we get on fine, and we'd rather do someone a good turn than a bad one....and a surplus is shared. To us it's normal, I thought it was normal elsewhere too ?

 

[Broch]

Personally I think what TeeDee said about putting your own mask on before helping others is the ideal, being a genuinely useful person to help a wider community to thrive is what I think humans are built for.

In all 'severe condition' training, such as fast water rescue training, one is taught that one's own safety comes first - you can't help anybody if you get into trouble yourself. Next come your team, again, if your team gets into difficulty they can't help others. Then, finally comes the 'victim'. I've considered this carefully during various courses and reluctantly come to the conclusion that it makes logical sense (Spock) though does not necessarily satisfy one's conscience.

 

[Toddy]

It works for more than food too though; M next door's combi boiler died a fortnight ago....and it was a cold snap, so we passed over our space heater, and MD, next again, told them to come and shower in her house until the plumber got the parts and fixed the boiler. It was only a couple of days, but it kept things comfortable.
One of us spots something that's a real bargain that we know the other will like (tea, is often a favourite post Christmas chocolate Lindt stuff too ) and we buy extra and pass it along.....it goes round one way or t'other

Right enough, sometimes it gets a tad overdone. Local supermarket was selling entire legs of pork for roasts. Himself liked the one I bought, so I said that if anyone spotted them at a really good price, pick them up for me and I'll happily reimburse.....and within a week found my freezer full of five legs from dead pigs ( I know, I know, but me and the boys are vegetarian) Took Himself near a year to eat that lot

On t'other hand, somehow or other a load of StPeter's Organic Ale turned up for sale....like crate loads of it. we were told that it was an insurance clear up after a lorry had a bump and some of the bottles shattered, so someone cleaned them up and sold them on. Some of them the labels had washed off. I think they just took a pressure washer to the bottles. Half this end of the village was happily sozzled though.

Then there were the cherries. The trees at the end of the school road looked black with all the fruit....I am very fond of cherries, but there's something about just too much.... turns out though that they make good booze, and they fatten up wood pigeons....did you know that five make a good pie ?

 

[Pattree]

Fortunately we are seeing a similar spirit emerging in very large bombed cities.

How many times have we seen crisis bringing a community closer together?

 

[slowworm]

Personally I'm realistic and life has taught me that I don't live in a fantasy world where everyone gets on, is helpful or even wants help.

For example, when we had the bad storm a couple of years back and I went to help a second home owner down our road to clear their trees that were blocking one end of our road. I didn't for one minute think they would have driven home because they had not internet and they thought nothing of leaving the road blocked for everyone else. Another example is when I went to help someone who'd rolled their car. I didn't get a very good reception because the car was unregistered so uninsured and and taxed and the driver was getting a bit agitated and the thought of me reporting it.

That hasn't stopped me helping but I'm far less naive these days.

 

[TeeDee]

Fortunately we are seeing a similar spirit emerging in very large bombed cities.

How many times have we seen crisis bringing a community closer together?

Whilst the romantic ( Idiot ) idealist in me wants to think that is a constant and how we can say how we all pulled together during the blitz etc I'm not sure if its true in ALL historic events.

I think its a somewhat romanticised rose coloured glasses version to see the hopeful best in all people but it would be unwise to believe its a given. Plenty of examples where others with less than good intent act with bad agency.

 

[Toddy]

@slowworm

That's the divide. If folks don't know how their neighbours 'are' then things easily go uncomfortably amiss.

You didn't do anything wrong; they were wrong footed and that set the tone
I'm sorry you don't have that 'joined up thinking' with them.

It's anything but perfect here, but like the Indian ox-cart, there's enough flex in the whole thing that it keeps moving.

 

[GreyCat]

…… but do we really?
OF COURSE the fact that I can’t find diesel this morning is something that I have chunnered about. The shortage of toilet rolls a few years ago was, for some, an inconvenience but was it a shock? Maybe. Dunno.


Also:
Arising from that conversation with one of my daughters (mid 40’s mum, socio-politically active) the question arose:

Is prepping a predominately middle class concern?

Edited to amend ^^^^^

All back to what one means by the word "prepping." The idea of having enough food put by for a few days whilst being "normal" to some, is "prepping" to others. I don't think it's a class thing so much as lifestyle, and indeed when I was a bairn, the working classes would put a bit extra by when they could afford it as they knew how quicky things could go south if the family breadwinner was injured in an accident at work for example.

It still seems like many people want to label a normal person or a normal activity as a prepper or prepping. I doubt many that keep a bit of spare food about and a decent first aid kit regard themselves as anything other than sensible. Not content with one label now we've got to add another such as middle class, why?

So far this week we've had our water stop working, power go out and our router/phone go down - all separate problems. Thankfully because I keep spares I sorted our water supply, the electricity came back on after a couple of hours so battery devices covered the outage and we could use our mobiles whilst the land line was down.

Being able to cope with such problems is normal life for us.

Indeed, I grew up like that and my other half and I are like that, it's not so much prepping as just getting on and fixing things. I htink it's more of a "fixer/doer" mentality than a class thing, and indeed the "skilled working class" tradesperson with a good toolbox would probably be more likely to fix things that the typical "middle class" office worker.

That may be because in the rural community everyone is reasonably prepared for 'rural' problems - power cuts, loss of water supply, floods ..., and most people are 'capable' of getting on in difficult times, so one doesn't feel that we are helping people that just couldn't be bothered and more a wholly supported effort of a community of mixed resources and skills (not sure that says what I mean but I've had a few glasses of wine ).

The rural life does tend to weed out the freeloaders (as do other close communities) because the freeloader gets known about and they learn from social signals that it's not OK. And if they don't learn, they tend to drift away to more urban areas wherefreeloading is easier.

Whilst the romantic ( Idiot ) idealist in me wants to think that is a constant and how we can say how we all pulled together during the blitz etc I'm not sure if its true in ALL historic events.

I think its a somewhat romanticised rose coloured glasses version to see the hopeful best in all people but it would be unwise to believe its a given. Plenty of examples where others with less than good intent act with bad agency.

Indeed. There is a dark side to the blitz that is not spoken about, but which was the subject of a book I read a few years ago (I forget the title). There was a level of govt and community intervention to "deal with" those who would not do their part. And the black market was rather more active than in the folk memory myth of those times.

GC

 

[TeeDee]

Indeed. There is a dark side to the blitz that is not spoken about, but which was the subject of a book I read a few years ago (I forget the title). There was a level of govt and community intervention to "deal with" those who would not do their part. And the black market was rather more active than in the folk memory myth of those times.

GC

I was also think of the events that occurred in the support camps set up during Storm Katrina , Ferfals account of Argentina , Haiti etc - Yes during these events you can find the best come out of people in an altruistic manner but also some predatory agents also - as one may expect in any social demographic.


Also differing cultures do have differing perspectives on what we may consider to be ' normal ' behaviour.

 

[Wildgoose]

I think Covid was a pretty good example of a “softer” event (yes I know was very serious for some)
In my experience there was a good degree of sharing resources, delivered by dead letter box drops. Nothing major, just a “I have no pasta” and “I have two bags, I’ll drop some off” etc

There were of course those who stockpiled and loaded up trolleys too.

I think the media likes extremes. A family who store a extra bottle of gas or a few tins isn’t interesting, a full bunker with respirators is.

 

[TeeDee]

I think Covid was a pretty good example of a “softer” event (yes I know was very serious for some)
In my experience there was a good degree of sharing resources, delivered by dead letter box drops. Nothing major, just a “I have no pasta” and “I have two bags, I’ll drop some off” etc

There were of course those who stockpiled and loaded up trolleys too.

I think the media likes extremes. A family who store a extra bottle of gas or a few tins isn’t interesting, a full bunker with respirators is.

Covid was / is a good example. Not sure if much of the darker side of things came from it but I only saw it from my viewpoint in the rural UK.

 

[Wildgoose]

Even on here there was a definite sharing of craft materials, clothing patterns etc

A lot was reliant on the postal service still going obviously