I was walking in the woods and found this...

[rik_uk3]

I disagree.

If it's in use; fine.
If it's abandoned and left like some hovel, disperse it and leave no trace.

M

How do you know if its abandoned, maybe a once a month camper uses it? Given the amount of fire scars left (tidy ones often) it seems 'no trace' is not in full use. Personally I'd rather see a clean and tidy fire scar which would hopefully encourage others to use the same spot.

 

[Toddy]

I'd rather see none.

Maybe that's the issue. Shelter building is often just an excuse to cut down trees; a justification for what would otherwise not be acceptable behaviour, especially on public land.
Time and place, and all too often left half done because they ran out of steam, and littered because they couldn't be bothered clearing up behind themselves.

Leave no trace kind of encourages thought and practical action. It's more effort though, isn't it?
Doesn't make it wrong.

M

 

[Goatboy]

Like others here when forced to camp in a popular spot I end up removing litter and if there are a fair few fire rings will dismantle some leaving one in the best position. Hopefully leaving the rest of the ground to recover and encourage the use of one place.

 

[Toddy]

Every one that's left just becomes a focus. Someone leaves it a mess and someone else builds a different one, wants to do it 'their way', and before long the site's a tip again.
If there were no trace left, and that was done by everyone, there would not be any issue at all.

M

 

[MertzMan]

I've torn it down. Makes more sense to do so now.

There are no fire scars there and all the wood has been deadfall. I re arranged the placement of the logs. Thats all.

 

[tom.moran]

fire pit is left, as is heat reflector, pile of logs and the big pile of branches i save off the gathered wood that ill use when im back there in 2 weeks time with friends

if i wasnt going back id srtip the site so you'd never know we'd been there

 

[rik_uk3]

I've torn it down. Makes more sense to do so now.

There are no fire scars there and all the wood has been deadfall. I re arranged the placement of the logs. Thats all.

Makes no sense at all to ruin someone elses work, out of order to be honest.

 

[markie*mark0]

Makes no sense at all to ruin someone elses work, out of order to be honest.

I agree, how do you know that it isn't a father trying to teach his children some bushcraft skills, they only do it every so often and today turn up to see it all torn down?

 

[Toddy]

Leave no trace.
Gather it up, build it up, take it down and disperse it.

Teach the kids how to do it, and why to do it.

M

 

[MertzMan]

I don't think it was out of order at all. The original was pretty shoddily built and to be fair my effort was only minimally better. I've taken off the main beam and left everything where it fell. Given my incorrect placement of the beam to begin with this has to happen anyway. I fail to see anything other than me realising my mistakes in construction and leaving it better than I found it. If anyone such as the original builder returns, they will have a much better beam when correctly placed and find all their rubbish has been carried out of the woods and disposed of correctly.

 

[MertzMan]

I agree, how do you know that it isn't a father trying to teach his children some bushcraft skills, they only do it every so often and today turn up to see it all torn down?

If the original is what parents have been teaching their kids then they've less of an idea about safe and secure construction than I do, and I'm pretty new to bush skills. Added to the fact if it is parents teaching kids why on earth let them litter the place to hell? I don't think its any coincidence that both appeared simultaneously.

If I found a secure, well constructed shelter in any stage of completion I would leave it be.

 

[tom.moran]

so unless you can make a proper 100% perfect shelter in one go it deserves to be taken down? people need to make mistakes, thats how they learn

 

[markie*mark0]

so unless you can make a proper 100% perfect shelter in one go it deserves to be taken down? people need to make mistakes, thats how they learn

exactly... sounds like we shouldn't bother trying (and making mistakes) unless we get it perfect first time....

 

[markie*mark0]

Leave no trace.
Gather it up, build it up, take it down and disperse it.

Teach the kids how to do it, and why to do it.

M

whilst i agree, its a natural wood shelter. it could be the family's escape from city life. could have taken hours for them to build so to keep it as an easy escape into the woods would make sense....

but lots of could's and i dont know who made the shelter

 

[MertzMan]

so unless you can make a proper 100% perfect shelter in one go it deserves to be taken down? people need to make mistakes, that's how they learn

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you build something so bad and litter the area to hell, and have no idea what you're doing, take it down and go back to researching from a book. I thought I knew what I was doing but have knocked it down until I can rebuild it properly and gain some more knowledge. My mistake was to dive in and not learn the principles beforehand of making one. After that, it's not exactly rocket science.

EDIT: and no where did I say they had to be completed 100% perfectly each time or be demolished. I'm just saying I should have researched it more to begin with and to be honest, what I left on the floor is better than anything that was there before and it HAD to be taken apart for the beam to be correctly placed after I cocked it up.

 

[rik_uk3]

I don't think it was out of order at all. The original was pretty shoddily built and to be fair my effort was only minimally better. I've taken off the main beam and left everything where it fell. Given my incorrect placement of the beam to begin with this has to happen anyway. I fail to see anything other than me realising my mistakes in construction and leaving it better than I found it. If anyone such as the original builder returns, they will have a much better beam when correctly placed and find all their rubbish has been carried out of the woods and disposed of correctly.

All their rubbish? Not mentioned before, interesting. You've still no right to impose your opinion of a solid structure on them, I would go ape if I found some 'bushcrafter' deemed it their duty to destroy my efforts, how dare they.

I've cleaned up several sites near me where local youngsters have camped for the night and left the area full of empty cans, bottles, cheap dome tent, burnt sleeping bag and a nice gas stove (than you very much) but I'd not dream of doing what you did where someone or a group have very clearly made an effort to build a shelter, perhaps their first and maybe their last if they think this vandalism (and be under no doubt or illusion, you carried out an act of vandalism) will happen again.

I'd best go cook dinner before I really get hot under the collar :aargh4:

 

[gixer]

Good job on tearing it down

I've dismantled several of these types of shelters on my property.

They are an eyesore and a health hazard to both humans and wildlife and it's just plain laziness and ignorance that they are being left up.
Kids will be kids, but they should also be taught to play responsibly.

The ones i've come across in Scandinavian countries i can understand as building a temporary shelter could well save the persons life.
In the UK though it's hardly going to be a life or death skill that needs to be mastered.

I put people that build these eyesores on the same level as people that spray graffiti on other peoples property.
If they want to build these types of shelters then they should buy their own woods and they can do whatever they like.

The countryside is for everyone to enjoy and no one person has the right to do what they want when they want without taking responsibility for their actions.

Those that do not have a problem with these type of builds i wonder how they would feel if they woke up tomorrow morning with one of these monstrosities in their front garden.
Hey they're only kids having fun

 

[markie*mark0]

Good job on tearing it down

I've dismantled several of these types of shelters on my property.

They are an eyesore and a health hazard to both humans and wildlife and it's just plain laziness and ignorance that they are being left up.
Kids will be kids, but they should also be taught to play responsibly.

The ones i've come across in Scandinavian countries i can understand as building a temporary shelter could well save the persons life.
In the UK though it's hardly going to be a life or death skill that needs to be mastered.

I put people that build these eyesores on the same level as people that spray graffiti on other peoples property.
If they want to build these types of shelters then they should buy their own woods and they can do whatever they like.

The countryside is for everyone to enjoy and no one person has the right to do what they want when they want without taking responsibility for their actions.

Those that do not have a problem with these type of builds i wonder how they would feel if they woke up tomorrow morning with one of these monstrosities in their front garden.
Hey they're only kids having fun

how will kids buy a local wood?

it almost seems most of us have forgotten what being a kid is about, learning and playing?

 

[Robbi]

that has to be one of the most stupid posts i have ever read !

no.....scrub that......THE most stupid post i have ever read !

 

[gixer]

how will kids buy a local wood?

it almost seems most of us have forgotten what being a kid is about, learning and playing?

So in your opinion kids should be left to do anything they want as long as it fits under some vague title as "playing"?