How long could you survive?

Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
21
60
Bristol
From personal experience, you have between three days and five days to find and secure a source of food. After that time your food/effort equation swings to the side of it’s better to do nothing in order to conserve what little energy you have.
After day five even if you manage to find food, your mental capacity to think will be so restricted that, recognising, procuring, and processing it will take five + times as long. Meaning your (in real terms) chances of actually benefiting from calories eaten will be slim.
I’d say take with you a crossword puzzle book (one aimed at teens/kids) and a stop watch.
Do one puzzle at home and time yourself. Then do a puzzle a day at the same time each day, and see how much difference it makes not eating will make to your mental faculties
 

toilet digger

Native
Jan 26, 2011
1,065
0
burradon northumberland
would it be possible to get a body weight pre and post the exercise?
it would be of real interest, especially as it has been supposed that a possible 2lbs would be lost per day potentially.

regards jamie.
 

Jaymzflood

Nomad
Mar 1, 2011
417
1
Swansea
If i was to attempt this, id try and go for the coast or stick to a river. I have no knowledge or trapping or tracking, but I can fish like the best of them! With a rod or no rod, i was born to take fish out of water!! Id be in a mess if I was on my own because I dont know how to do things like Skin animals (although id give it a go). Id make a huge mess of it and the kill would be wasted. Dont get me wrong, something Id like to have a go at, but id spend the best part of 6 months with my head in bushcraft eating books!!
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
27
70
south wales
But as toddy said there's also birds - seagulls are easy to fool and it wouldn't take much at all to catch one on a baited hook and line (I speak from accidental experience). Seaweed can be obtained in large quantities year round. The key would be preserving things to last the winter.

Birds? true, not much fat on some so your on a looser really like living off rabbits, you starve. Seaweed? Whats the calorific value of that? You can use up more energy digging up pig nuts and burdock than the end results give you etc. Your on a coast so how much of the day will be spent collecting fire wood.

For newer members here read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
 

Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
21
60
Bristol
Rabbit starvation seemed to affect only the white folk, off their home territory, and mainly in winter time when bigger game was rare. Natives (Americans Indians and the like) process rabbit differently to Europeans, not only rabbits but also squirrels and trout. With rabbits, Europeans, just eat the lean meat and a few select organs. Native people ate all of the animal, bar the bones and the pelt, even then they cracked open the bones, for the marrow, they would also eat most of the stomach content of the animal ( a sort of sour grassy green salad). The bones would be cooked in a “bone rendering pot” and the resulting 'soup' was used as a fatty stock to be added other foods.

The partially digested greens that the animal ate, must still have contained enough vitamins B, C, E to satisfy the bodys needs, the bone, and the marrow would also be a rich source of fats and oils. Even the eyeballs have a use as they contain salt and water; the internal organs would contain trace elements and vitamin A.

It’s not that eating too many rabbits leads to death by starvation, it’s ignorance of how get all that you can from the animal, that leads to death.
 

mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
9,990
12
Selby
www.mikemountain.co.uk
Birds? true, not much fat on some so your on a looser really like living off rabbits, you starve. Seaweed? Whats the calorific value of that? You can use up more energy digging up pig nuts and burdock than the end results give you etc. Your on a coast so how much of the day will be spent collecting fire wood.

For newer members here read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

Well supplemented with easy to catch high fat oily fish like mackerel it may not be so bad. You'd obviously have to salt/smoke (salt farming would not be fun in the summer) your fish to keep through the winter - not saying it would be easy but I think you'd last longer and have a far better chance of survival on a woodland/coastline environment than anywhere else.

Some useful info for fish:
http://www.nyseafood.org/nutrition/health2.asp

and for seaweed:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2766/2
 
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BillyBlade

Settler
Jul 27, 2011
748
3
Lanarkshire
As posted on the other thread, we tried it in that area. After a week, we could have eaten our own boots we were so hungry. The ML's baled us out during it or we'd have starved.

At the meal we had on the way back to the base, they told us straight - the lesson you've just learned is that if you ever find yourself in a similar locale, you get out, you walk until you get friendly forces and get sorted. You DO NOT stick around. It's a slow death to do so.

Lesson learned. In spades. As Rik and others have said, there is damn near NOTHING there to sustain you.

The young lad who died, I wonder if he'd ever even been there for an overnight/3 day trip to suss the place out before he decided to do a year there, because I just cant get my head around someone being so very stupid and just turning up without a true recce of the place.

As an old instructor of mine once said, there is more than one way to commit suicide. He wasn't wrong.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
Lots of theory here.

So lets put that theory to the test, in a much safer, environment with a load more resources. If the going proves as hard as I am expecting it to be, then It might give others thinking about much harsher environments pause to think a bit more about what its likely to entail. British lowland woodland is a veritable supermarket compared to the high moors of Scotland. It might also prove to be interesting to people who just want to know the answer to the OP.
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
59
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
So lets put that theory to the test, in a much safer, environment with a load more resources. If the going proves as hard as I am expecting it to be, then It might give others thinking about much harsher environments pause to think a bit more about what its likely to entail. British lowland woodland is a veritable supermarket compared to the high moors of Scotland. It might also prove to be interesting to people who just want to know the answer to the OP.

I think this is incredibly valid.

As mentioned, there is always a lot of "theory" around these kinds of questions. How would you survive, how long could you last etc. Some of the answers seem a bit optimistic and some are pure wishful thinking. It's understandable as so many of the pictures of "bushcraft" on this site show people having a great time, eating well, good company, a roaring fire ...it makes it all look like so much of a jolly jaunt. What they often dont show, is the car parked 300 yards away loaded with Sainsbury's bags, cold boxes full of beer and crates of kit and gear. If it looks no harder than a Sunday afternoon BBQ, that's because it often isn't I suspect. I think this can lull people into a false sense of security - perhaps that's what happened with the lad in Rannoch moor, maybe he thought living off the woods for a year would be a big jolly jaunt, I dont know. He obviously thought it would be easier than it turned out to be. I do suspect the reality is very, very much harder, even for someone with training, skills, experience and a cherry-picked bit of woodland. Even in perfect woodland, I suspect it's borderline impossible for more than a couple of weeks ...without a rifle anyway.
 
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udamiano

On a new journey
Yes without additional hunting equipment, I would honestly say that after 2 weeks it would be extremely hard. in Winter nigh on impossible to all but a very few, with expert knowledge and months of preparation of food stuffs and clothing, add this to a barren bleak moorland, with little or no resources to start with even in summer then even a week would be a challenge even for an expert who knew the area.

I've booked an appointment with the Doctors 2 weeks prior to dong this experiment, to get the OK and some data, and have booked an appointment for the Wednesday of my return again to gauge the effects, I'll post these up both prior and after the event for those interested.

This is not the first time I've done this, and as stated earlier, I am doing this with no illusion to what is likely to happen, I've never done this and recorded the event though, so the data will prove interesting to myself also in the coming years as a reference model.

If this proves successful and of any valid help, I'll do another one in the winter, this again will be walk in with what I've got in a 35lt backpack (Winter variation on the items), but never less the same format.

Normally I'm as guilty as the next for the amount of kit, food, and drink I take. :beerchug:

Day
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
Lots of theory here.

Not all theory though, i can tell you by first hand experience living 100% off the land is brutally tough.
Even with modern tools.

So lets put that theory to the test, in a much safer, environment with a load more resources. If the going proves as hard as I am expecting it to be, then It might give others thinking about much harsher environments pause to think a bit more about what its likely to entail. British lowland woodland is a veritable supermarket compared to the high moors of Scotland. It might also prove to be interesting to people who just want to know the answer to the OP.

Only thing i'd say is you absolutely need someone to come out and check up on you every couple of days.
Might sound a bit daft if you have a mobile phone next to you.
But your decision making process quickly goes to bollox even if your relatively well fed and watered.

You will get to the point where you want to quit after 4 or 5 days, but if your mentally strong you might well push yourself.
Problem is you'll be pretty ill tired and hungry at this point so you WILL cut corners on food and take chances.
Same with water you WILL get to the point where you feel you won't have the energy to boil it properly if at all.

Your then getting into the realms of causing long time damage to your internal organs if you eat or drink the wrong stuff.
It's not THAT important.

So please please please have someone that knows you well come out to you and physically check you at least every other day.
Get them to bring some scales as well to monitor weight loss, it's also worth them reading up on the tell tell signs of dehydration.

I think this is incredibly valid.

As mentioned, there is always a lot of "theory" around these kinds of questions. How would you survive, how long could you last etc. Some of the answers seem a bit optimistic and some are pure wishful thinking. It's understandable as so many of the pictures of "bushcraft" on this site show people having a great time, eating well, good company, a roaring fire ...it makes it all look like so much of a jolly jaunt. What they often dont show, is the car parked 300 yards away loaded with Sainsbury's bags, cold boxes full of beer and crates of kit and gear. If it looks no harder than a Sunday afternoon BBQ, that's because it often isn't I suspect. I think this can lull people into a false sense of security - perhaps that's what happened with the lad in Rannoch moor, maybe he thought living off the woods for a year would be a big jolly jaunt, I dont know. He obviously thought it would be easier than it turned out to be. I do suspect the reality is very, very much harder, even for someone with training, skills, experience and a cherry-picked bit of woodland. Even in perfect woodland, I suspect it's borderline impossible for more than a couple of weeks ...without a rifle anyway.

Agree 100%

What with TV shows, editing etc most would think you could live off the land as long as you want.
In reality though even IF your a talented and experienced hunter, fisherman and have extensive experience in outdoor living you only need a few set backs to really knock you off your game.
You then need to be extremely mentally strong to pull back from those set backs.

Even something that seems minor now, like your support falling over will be massively exaggerated after a few tough days.
I remember falling over a lot and knocking things over, stuff that if i do at home i don't think twice about, but after many days it was enough to bring you to tears, i'd fall over and just sit there until i built myself up with enough will power to get up.
 

Shewie

Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
26
49
Yorkshire
Send me on one of Patrick's or Fraser's courses for a week and then I'll give it a shot :)

I reckon I could give it a good go on the coast, fishing with wombled kit from the wash up, seaweed, shellfish and anything dumb enough to take a bit of crab or mussel on a bent wire hook. The place I have in mind has a huge amount to offer, there's salmon farms and even a few hairy coos and beaver for the taking :) I can track but my trapping would be poor so I doubt I'd even try. Over the space of a week I'd probably spend more time keeping dry and warm in a shelter, getting something to eat would be a bonus but certainly not unrealistic.
 

mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
9,990
12
Selby
www.mikemountain.co.uk
So what we're saying is humans have to be social to survive - a single man alone in the wilderness - even if prepared with a bow, a gill net, furs, some traps etc. couldn't hack it? At least not in the UK pre agriculture?
 

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