?how easiest to sand small pieces of wood

[Elines]

I am plodding on with my foray into carving fan birds (see http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83949&highlight=) and
am gradually getting better at doing the feathers but am not yet making much progress with getting the body smoothly rounded.

This picture from the thread above gives an idea of the scale:

It is on smoothing the head/body that I would like advice.

Even when not 'fanned out' the feathers can be quite delicate and so I am a bit concerned that if I try to do lots of hand sanding I will end up damaging them.

So I am looking for ideas.

I think the ideal solution is to be better at carving but that is probably some way off in my case.

One option might be to get a cheap dremel clone eg from Aldi/Lidl (when they come round again), or off e-bay. But I have never used one and before I spent £s I wondered what views people on here might have. Especially as I understand that the sanding discs/drums can become expensive eg see

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f8/power-sanding-small-pieces-curves-10365/

and there might be a better solution anyway.

So ... views please on what options/combination of options I might try to get a better result before I have to start spending money

 

[Mesquite]

Try gluing various grades of sand paper to various shapes of wood so you end up with a selection of sandpaper 'files' Chris.

Think emery board size

 

[Biker]

The dremel clones are pretty good for what they are, and even if you don't get the full use of it on the sanding side of things it's always a really hadny piece of kit in your tool arsenal. I also bought the accessory pack with included polishing wheels and buffers and an assortment of grinding and cutting disks. I even invested in a set of carving router points, rather like drills but with different cutting profiles. They werk fine too on carving, even on resin and plastics

So I would think such a tool would work quite well on delicate wood, so long as you support the work underneath as you work on it from above.

Hpe this helps

 

[Elines]

Thanks for these two prompt responses - hadn't thought of the 'emery board' approach and useful to have a view on the dremel clone.

 

[Taffy63]

When I carve fan birds I rough carve the body after the basic wing shapes have been done, but before the feathers have been riven. I also leave the hinge a little thicker at this stage, then I boil the wood until it's soft and flexible. When it's ready I split the feathers and refine the body shape; the wood is very soft and easy to carve so I find I can get a pretty good finish and leaving a bit of meat at the hinge means it is still strong enough for quite rough treatment. The last thing to do is thin out the hinge and bend the feathers into the fan. I have not felt the need to sand any, but I would use a rotary tool. I have one the ones from Aldi and highly recommend it. It has a flexible shaft that can be attached and the drill suspended, this makes detailed work much easier because you have better control.
I think your fan birds are looking great and the carving will come in time, you could even try just carving some bird shapes for practice and not worry about the fan bit. I found at the beginning that I worried so much about the riving and bending feathers that the bodies were almost a second thought, but as I practiced I became less precious about the fan and the birds were better for it.
Cheers
Nigel

 

[Elines]

Thanks Taffy63 - it's good to have some fanbird-specific advice. I haven't tried doing them in the order you suggest and will give it a go. Coupled with the other suggestions I think I might be well on the way to cracking it

But more ideas still welcome!

 

[Kepis]

dont sand it, just carve it, either use long knife strokes to gain definition or to get it smooth, use hundreds of tiny little cuts to remove all the high spots, after a short time it will become smooth as you will eventually remove all the ridges between cuts, of course as you remove one, you create one, but each time it gets smaller and smaller, you are looking to remove slithers of wood afater time they all blend into a smooth contour

hth's?

 

[Elines]

dont sand it, just carve it, either use long knife strokes to gain definition or to get it smooth, use hundreds of tiny little cuts to remove all the high spots, after a short time it will become smooth as you will eventually remove all the ridges between cuts, of course as you remove one, you create one, but each time it gets smaller and smaller, you are looking to remove slithers of wood afater time they all blend into a smooth contour

hth's?

Thanks for raising this. At the moment - for me - this falls into the category of 'I know this is the best solution'

(because I recall reading a thread where someone was making the point that even when sanding very finely what you are actually doing is creating very small fluff and that the only real way to get rid of it is to carve with a sharp knife)

but my carving skills are currently way off that level. Taffy63's suggestion about practising carving the head/body bits is a good one that will(hopefully) eventually get me there - but not for a while yet and in the meantime I need to use other approaches.

 

[Kepis]

but my carving skills are currently way off that level. .

in all honesty, it's just as easy as sanding

 

[Sean Hellman]

I would spend more time with the knife. I never sand mine. It would be a lot of work to sand the bird in the picture without a bit more knife work. If you do want to sand do it before fanning the feathers. Leave the hinge thicker and take the hinge down thinner after sanding.
I have seen a lot of Russian and eastern European birds with sanded bodies and they look great, but it is a lot of extra work. I can get a good knife finish a lot quicker than a sanded finish. In other words its £5 extra if people want a sanded fan bird from me.
I have done a lot of sanding both power and hand over the years and I hate it. Doing it commercially is the devils own occupation. Doing a few occassionally for your own enjoyment is a different story.

 

[the interceptor boy]

of the cut, an idea is to smooth and sand the piece, and then make the cut for the fan's of the bird, might work, try it and see. or do as above, cheers the interceptor boy.

 

[Elines]

I know that both Kepis and Sean Hellman are very skilled at fan birds and so I take their advice re 'carve don't sand' seriously.

As indicated in the original post, my line is that 'carving' is where I want to get to but I see me as moving from:

• a combined approach (carve then sand), to
• all or virtually all carving

over a period.

In the meantime I need a way of getting good results with the head/body without currently having the carving skills I know I need to develop.

One practical thing I have done to help improve my carving is that I have got some blanks of different types of wood that may be easier to carve than the (?)pine scraps that I have been using.

Over the next week or so, I want to try out the various bits of advice I have received, but - as ever - any more comments also welcome.

 

[andrew_cc]

I know Im new here, but I cant help but chime in for the dremel, You can get two sizes of sanding head that will be absolutely ideal for what you do. ( by the way, amazing work!) if you find the dremel itself a little unwieldy theres also an attachment that kind looks like a pencil which you put the attachments into for more detailed work,

 

[Elines]

I know Im new here, but I cant help but chime in for the dremel, You can get two sizes of sanding head that will be absolutely ideal for what you do. ( by the way, amazing work!) if you find the dremel itself a little unwieldy theres also an attachment that kind looks like a pencil which you put the attachments into for more detailed work,

Don't worry about being 'new' to the site - I think that is irrelevant if you have something relevant to say - which in this case you have because you have actually used a dremel.

Thanks for your views. In so far as I have a clear plan of action it is something like:

• try carving just the head/body
• try doing the entire thing in a different order
• make some 'emery' board sanding 'devices' in different shapes/curves (which in itself will give me some carving practice)
• see how I get on without buying any new kit
• speak to people at meets about this to get more views based on practical experience
• then decide on which way to go - which may include getting some kind of small electrical drill

Thankyou (and also same to others who have complimented what i have done).

Whilst I am pleased with it as a first attempt I know that there are lots of improvements I need to make, but I would encourage everybody to have a go the detailed instructions included in the original post at http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83949&highlight= (which I got from elsewhere and are not my original work). I was amazed at how successful my attempt was just by following instructions and using no skill/flair to speak of.

 

[2sheds]

i back the don't sand approach - i never sand mine, too time consuming, even rougher knife cuts barely show once the bird is hung and to my mind it's all character & style. i cut out the bird profile and carve the bird after riving and before fanning, i find the birds suprisingly robust until they dry.

will post some pics once i get the chance.

Paul

oh, and why is making fanbirds so addictive? i got a bit obsessesed for a time and forgot about my love of spoons and bowls (and ignored the wife and kids too!)

 

[Elines]

oh, and why is making fanbirds so addictive? i got a bit obsessesed for a time and forgot about my love of spoons and bowls (and ignored the wife and kids too!)

I think it is because you start off with a really boring lump of wood and end up with something three dimensional and delicate and - if I was in poetic mode - magical