Horizon: How Big Is the Universe? (T) Mon 21:00

[santaman2000]

How did scientists come up with such a precise figure for the creation of the universe?...

The same way engineers do their work. You have seen the definition of an engineer haven't you?

Engineer: A well educated professional who makes critical descisions, using on complex calculations, based on inaccurate data collected by incompetent technicians.

 

[dwardo]

Gotta admit that i fell asleep half way through....
Whilst i love the subject the constant repeating of graphics, the shots of the lass infront of the desert and the daft gap filling stuff put me to sleep.
Would prefer a lot more info and a lot less shiney shiney.

 

[HillBill]

Now thats one to send your head round in circles

So if you're in your car, driving long at the speed of light, and you turn on your headlights; does it help?

 

[ged]

Gotta admit that i fell asleep half way through....

Makes me glad I don't have a tv.

Would prefer a lot more info and a lot less shiney shiney.

Which funnily enough is just what I told the Met. Office this afternoon. :umbrella:

 

[blacktimberwolf]

It didn't 'come from somewhere'. It didn't exist. There wasn't any matter before that, nor was there anything else. It came into existence, along with a load of magnetic monopoles (which at the time greatly outnumbered all the other particles, and which now seem to have all gone, which is a big part of the puzzle) . Or so we are led to believe, by what we think we can see. It might all be complete tosh.



About a nano-nano-nano-nano-second.

If it didn't exist, how did it exist even for a nano- nano-nano -nano -nano second ? How can something come into existance from nothing ? Where did all the matter in the universe come from & if the universe is expanding, where does the matter come from to allow the continual expansion?

If the universe is not infinate, then is there not something beyond it ?

Can the human being ever really comprehend the universe ?, can a primitive primate brain ever hope to know how & when the universe came into being ?(if indeed it did)

Does the universe really exist ? after all we only have our word for it that it does. Prehaps it exists because we want it to.....

Isn't that political and thus a banned topic on BCUK?

Political ?........nah, world economics.

 

[ged]

... How can something come into existance from nothing ?

You need to ask yourself what are 'something' and 'nothing' (and perhaps what it means to exist). Then you need to come up with a plausible answer. I assure you that the conundrum is being worked on.
Look, we've only just found a Higgs particle. We'd been looking for it for nearly fifty years, and now we've found one we're not even sure what it is.

Where did all the matter in the universe come from

Matter doesn't need to have come from anywhere if it suddenly just came into existence as a consequence of, er, something that isn't matter. The matter that you're making such a fuss about it just what we can 'see'. That is if you can 'see' matter -- what we actually 'see' with our eyes isn't matter. What we see is, if you like to think of it this way, 'energy' transported by a 'field'. The 'energy' makes chemical reactions happen in our eyes. The 'field' happens to be an electromagnetic field, which luckily is one of the simpler fields on which to get a mathematical grip so that lets us watch the telly and ponce around with mobile 'phones. There's a whole load more stuff that we can't see, but we know it's there because of what we can see. Other kinds of fields have been theorized to explain it all. Fields are not matter, we know that. Fields exist, we know that, and they can contain energy, we know that, and they can exist even in a hard vacuum where there is no matter, we know that. Do you see where this is going?

& if the universe is expanding, where does the matter come from to allow the continual expansion?

Things getting more distant from each other doesn't require more of them to come into existence. To be honest it's not exactly clear to me what it does require.

... can a primitive primate brain ever hope to know how & when the universe came into being ?(if indeed it did) ...

Quite, (quite).

 

[HillBill]

There can be no such thing as nothing, because if it is defined as nothing, then it IS something. More than likely there were two nothings which made a something

Gotta love the mind F..k lol

Its impossible to comprehend true nothingness, without being there, which means there must be something or you couldnt be there nor would you ever be able to sit here thinking about it.

 

[HillBill]

Pressure.

But introduced from an external source ( think squeeze effect) initially, then over time being produced from an internal source as more and more fusion reactions occur within the confines of galaxy/universe ( ie something which has a higher output than input)

. To be honest it's not exactly clear to me what it does require.
Quite, (quite).

 

[HillBill]

AxN P M S L F Q

 

[John Fenna]

Do we agree that the Universe is big?
I mean ... what do we compare it with?
Are other universes bigger or smaller?
Are we big?
Are we clever?

 

[HillBill]

Size is relative. So if like in men in black the galaxy was trapped within a marble sized thing. To us the galaxy is tiny. But what if you lived on a planet within that galaxy? and had a marble with a galaxy in it, and in that galaxy there was a marble with a galaxy inside? In every galaxy it appears the same size, yet to the folk with the marble, they would see it as tiny. Well what if you looked up? If you could see far enough, would you see yourself looking at a small marble?

 

[John Fenna]

Size is relative. So if like in men in black the galaxy was trapped within a marble sized thing. To us the galaxy is tiny. But what if you lived on a planet within that galaxy? and had a marble with a galaxy in it, and in that galaxy there was a marble with a galaxy inside? In every galaxy it appears the same size, yet to the folk with the marble, they would see it as tiny. Well what if you looked up? If you could see far enough, would you see yourself looking at a small marble?

Good question!
Unfortunately I cannot answer it as I seem to have mislayed my marbles....
I guesshat comes from trying to understand "Dark Matter", "Dark Energy", expanding infinity, multiple Universes and flatpack furniture instructions...

 

[HillBill]

I gave up on flatpack instructions long ago lol, too complicated

 

[Harvestman]

The one that always gets me is, if the universe as we perceive it is 14 billion years old, is that quite young for a universe, or quite mature? What is the lifespan of a universe?

You see, if the universe is young, there might no be much life around, as life would have had less time to evolve, relative to the lifespan of the universe. If the universe is old, then most of the time that life has had to evolve has already passed, and we might expect the universe to be full of life.

Lots of holes in this reasoning, I know, but you get my drift, I hope.



Oh yes, and if all of the energy in the universe can ultimately be expressed as light, and the universe is getting larger, then is it getting darker in here?

 

[santaman2000]

...Matter doesn't need to have come from anywhere if it suddenly just came into existence as a consequence of, er, something that isn't matter. The matter that you're making such a fuss about it just what we can 'see'. That is if you can 'see' matter -- what we actually 'see' with our eyes isn't matter. What we see is, if you like to think of it this way, 'energy' transported by a 'field'. The 'energy' makes chemical reactions happen in our eyes. The 'field' happens to be an electromagnetic field, which luckily is one of the simpler fields on which to get a mathematical grip so that lets us watch the telly and ponce around with mobile 'phones....

The two holes in this train of thought are:
1. Elecromagnetic fields depend on electricity which is nothing more than the passing of electrons from one atom to the next. No matter means no atoms, in turn means no electricity, in tun means no electromagnetic field; thus making said field dependent on matter rather than the reverse.
2. The Big Bang theory also states that the 4 forms of energy (eletrical, thermal, nuclear, and I forget the 4th) were all crated at the same time as matter.

 

[HillBill]

No one can know that answer yet. But again, i would say its relative. Within the universe it may seem like trillions of years for example. But going back to my post re marbles, it could be that looking at the marble, it may expire in a decade. But within the marble, trillions of years have passed. If you can follow that thinking

Depending on which version of history you adhere to -
One one side there is the accepted ( for now at least) version which says we evolved over a long time and have yet to meet any other race.

On the other side is the version where we were genetically created to populate this world as an asset of another race

Now the accepted version ie Darwin and evolution Is based on one of two suppostions. That life appeared by magic in the primordial soup theory ( abiogenesis - were all here because a rock got wet once)) or that life came from elsewhere ( biogenesis) One is very unscientific, the other is making a mockery of the accepted version and leans more on the "alternative" version to a small extent. The odds stack up in favour of life is elsewhere.

The one that always gets me is, if the universe as we perceive it is 14 billion years old, is that quite young for a universe, or quite mature? What is the lifespan of a universe?

You see, if the universe is young, there might no be much life around, as life would have had less time to evolve, relative to the lifespan of the universe. If the universe is old, then most of the time that life has had to evolve has already passed, and we might expect the universe to be full of life.

Lots of holes in this reasoning, I know, but you get my drift, I hope.



Oh yes, and if all of the energy in the universe can ultimately be expressed as light, and the universe is getting larger, then is it getting darker in here?

 

[sandbender]

"...Where did all the matter in the universe come from & if the universe is expanding, where does the matter come from to allow the continual expansion?.."

Matter spontaneously bursts into existence from nothing all the time, this fact is hidden from us because that new matter is usually in the form of paperclips appearing at the back of drawers, wire coat hangers found hanging in previously empty old wardrobes and shiny pennys found on the pavement.

 

[santaman2000]

No one can know that answer yet. But again, i would say its relative. Within the universe it may seem like trillions of years for example. But going back to my post re marbles, it could be that looking at the marble, it may expire in a decade. But within the marble, trillions of years have passed. If you can follow that thinking ....

I'm glad you mentioned this. That's the other thing about the Big bang theory. Not only was it the beginning of matter and the forms of energy (according to the theory) but it was also the beginning of time itself.

 

[mountainm]

I'm glad you mentioned this. That's the other thing about the Big bang theory. Not only was it the beginning of matter and the forms of energy (according to the theory) but it was also the beginning of time itself.

And also the end of time, if you believe in a cyclic universe. Big crush, followed by big bang etc.

 

[santaman2000]

Yes. It certainly does get interesting doesn't it?