Here's a pic for the pro-nuclear to enjoy.

[santaman2000]

I guess that they (TPTB) don't see it as a logical nor viable terrorist threat if that is the case, the Germans saw their dams as a viable and logical target so instigated what they felt were necessary precautions to try and stop such attacks.






But that wasn't caused by someone blowing a hole in the grid, take out a section of grid with a device that, for example destroys a sub-station or a few power pylons and I very much doubt that it will have the same effect.

Hoover Dam isn't a "section" of a grid or a "sub-station." It IS the Southwestern grid; or at least 1/3 of it. Transferring power from another source into that grid sounds good BUT...there simply isn't that much power available elsewhere (4 billion kilowatt hours/year according to the Bureau of Reclamation, Lower Colorado river District)

 

[santaman2000]

Some have commented on the costs associated with nuclear reactor being prohibitive. It might be interesting to compare the costs associated with building dams for hydro-power. The following info was copied from the Bureau of Reclamation: Lower Colorado River District's (the agency which operates Hoover Dam) question and answer section:

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How is the income from the sale of power used?

To pay all operation, maintenance and replacement costs (including interest expense and repayment of investments) to meet the requirements of the project. The cost of construction completed and in service by 1937 was repaid from power revenues by May 31, 1987, except for costs relating to flood control. Repayment of the $25 million construction costs allocated to flood control will be repaid by 2037. Any features added after May 31, 1987 will be repaid within 50 years of the date of installation or as established by Congress. In addition, Arizona and Nevada each receive $300,000 annually in lieu of taxes.

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So apparently it took 50 years to pay off the costs (construction and maintenence costs) associated with power production (with revenues derived from sale of said power) and the costs associated with flood control won't be paid off for yet another 25 years from now (or roughly 100 years from when the dam was built)
​

 

[wingstoo]

The RAF took several attempts before they got it right, suicide bomber would get one go...

Eggs and baskets come to mind, one grid powered by one station, not good. spread the load, ease the problem.

 

[santaman2000]

The RAF took several attempts before they got it right, suicide bomber would get one go...

Eggs and baskets come to mind, one grid powered by one station, not good. spread the load, ease the problem.

-A suicide bomber could easily make 4 or 5 or even a dozen practice runs in an unarmed ski boat posing as an inept idiot before making the real run. Or if delivering by rented aircraft it would be as simple as flying into the base as per 911.

-Actually it's about 1/3 of the power for that grid. There are also 4 nuclear reactors in the neighboring grids. As for sharing the load, well, that's the idea but the problem is (there and through-out North America) is that ALL our grids are antiquated (as are our dams, reactors, and bridges) and prone to cascading failures.

 

[Urban X]

Hope this was found interesting to anyone, at least if you didn't know how it worked, you have a basic understanding now

Cheers

I found it very interesting actually, so thanks bushcraftman dude, and it had a picture yay

I think nuclear power is definately the way forward for the time being, whilst also developing greener alternatives like wind, solar and wave (maybe).

We have a large wind farm off the East Kent coast and there are plans for another even larger one to be built next to it according to the local fishermen I know, you don't get many dead calm days down here out at sea and I've been out and seen these things close up, they're amazing. Solar power is hideously expensive atm but it'll get cheaper as everything usually does I reckon.

I ain't no scientist but IMO those in the know and those in power have cocked up royally on this whole issue and now we're sadly lacking and it'll only go downhill from here. We don't have the room to build massive solar installations like these +500MW jobbies in the US, but we do get a hell of alot of wind, and if some bright spark actually comes up with a way of harnessing the power of the sea without completely mucking up what is already an endangered eco system then it'll be happy days.


Si

 

[Bushwhacker]

If only the Severn Barrage had been given the go ahead.

 

[Andy BB]

If only the Severn Barrage had been given the go ahead.

No chance - the RSPB spiked that one royally

 

[Bushwhacker]

No chance - the RSPB spiked that one royally

They certainly did, nor did they realise that it would have created a better environment than what is there now.

 

[wingstoo]

-A suicide bomber could easily make 4 or 5 or even a dozen practice runs in an unarmed ski boat posing as an inept idiot before making the real run. Or if delivering by rented aircraft it would be as simple as flying into the base as per 911.

You don't know the Dam busters story too well then Santaman?

http://www.dambusters.org.uk/

They didn't drop their munitions at the exposed side of the wall after "practice" runs, they had only 30 bombs to do the raid on up to six or eight Dams, it took years of calculations and practice runs on UK Dams before the night of the raids. I think your probably quite safe from a terror attack if any terrorist comes up with a plan similar to the one you have suggested.

 

[Andy BB]

..and it took a lot of two-ton bombs placed in exactly the right place to breach a single dam. Methinks it would have to be a pretty big ski-boat!

 

[santaman2000]

You don't know the Dam busters story too well then Santaman?

http://www.dambusters.org.uk/

They didn't drop their munitions at the exposed side of the wall after "practice" runs, they had only 30 bombs to do the raid on up to six or eight Dams, it took years of calculations and practice runs on UK Dams before the night of the raids. I think your probably quite safe from a terror attack if any terrorist comes up with a plan similar to the one you have suggested.

Actually I do know the story. But they were "dropping" bombs; not suicide flying direstly into the target.

 

[santaman2000]

..and it took a lot of two-ton bombs placed in exactly the right place to breach a single dam. Methinks it would have to be a pretty big ski-boat!

Not "two ton bombs" but bombs with the explosive equivalent of two tons of dynamite. Not really all that powerful by today's standards. And "exactly the right place" using primitive bomb sights by today's standards. Nowhere near the accuracy possible by simply driving the boat or plane into the target.

 

[Andy BB]

Not "two ton bombs" but bombs with the explosive equivalent of two tons of dynamite. Not really all that powerful by today's standards. And "exactly the right place" using primitive bomb sights by today's standards. Nowhere near the accuracy possible by simply driving the boat or plane into the target.

Actually, the bombs each contained nearly three tons of torpex - still a nasty explosive - and was delivered 30 feet under the water. Mohne dam took 4 of these to breach it. So, as I said, it would have to be a very big speedboat with submarine accessories, or a very large plane indeed to carry the load and not break up on impact with the water.

 

[santaman2000]

Actually, the bombs each contained nearly three tons of torpex - still a nasty explosive - and was delivered 30 feet under the water. Mohne dam took 4 of these to breach it. So, as I said, it would have to be a very big speedboat with submarine accessories...

Or a sinking houseboat? www.sumerset.com There are around 150 or so similar to these on Lake Mead; dozens of them are rentals www.houseboating.org/MEAD/overview.cfm

A large airplane? Maybe the type that fly over Lake Mead everyday on tourist flights from Las Vegas to sightsee over the Grand Canyon and also Lake Mead itself?

This seems to be going along the lines that everyone believes that I believe it (or any dam) would be an easy target. That's not my point at all. However I do believe it would be an EASIER target than a nuclear reator. After all, nuclear reactors are on private (or government/company) property and do not generally attract tourists. Dams however are the opposite. They create lakes which generally become public recreation areas with easy public access and hundreds of boaters, skiers, fishermen, etc on the water at any given moment.

Either target would be valuable in disrupting power supplies. A dam would also be an attractive target to destry property downstream and reduce water supplies (emptying the reservoir); whereas a reactor would have the added benefit (in the eyes of a terrorist) of spreading (or at least creating the fear of spreading) radiation.

If I seem a bit paranoid remember after retiring from the Air Force, I was a cop for 13 years. It's in my nature to see threats behind every tree (or every wave or cloud in this case) And I've been a recreational boater on Lake Mead (in the 1970s/80s) and the Gulf of Mexico for the last 20+ years as well as a private pilot/professional aircraft mechanic and hold a CDL (comercial driver's license) The point being I'm suspicious of everything and have a fair knowledge of common transportation (weapons delivery) methods.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Actually I do know the story. But they were "dropping" bombs; not suicide flying direstly into the target.

All things considered, it was as close to suicide flying as you're going to get.
Those chaps had some stones.

 

[santaman2000]

All things considered, it was as close to suicide flying as you're going to get.
Those chaps had some stones.

Indeed they did. But many have done much "closer" to true suicide flying. Of course the 911 attacks are the most recent but lets not forget the Kamakazis.