Here we go TRESPASS laws in Scotland

[filcon]

QUOTE http://www.siliconglen.com/Scotland/1_8.html
Trespass

It is a perpetual myth that there are no trespass laws in Scotland. Even before the recent Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, trespass has long been a delict (civil wrong) which is remediable by the remedies of interdict and damages. However, The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 amends the Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865 and establishes a statutory right of access.

Certain types of trespass have been criminal since the Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865 was passed, an Act no-one has ever heard of. Section 3 makes it an offence for any person to lodge in any premises, or occupy or encamp on any land, being private property, without the consent of the owner or legal occupier. Admittedly this section envisages a degree of permanency which will not be present in every situation of trespass.

Is it me but I thought the Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865 was dead. Permanency, hmmm pretty grey area with a strong smell of dung.

phil

 

[Shewie]

I always though it was a free reign with a few exceptions ? As a non native it would be nice to know where we stood

Scottish Access Code ..

Where access rights do not apply ....

• Houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and associated land
• Farm buildings and yards
• Land in which crops have been sown or are growing (although please note that the headrigs, endrigs and other margins of fields where crops are growing are not defined as crops, whether sown or unsown, and are therefore within access rights).
• Land next to a school and used by the school
• Sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
• Land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use
• Golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don't interfere with any games of golf)
• Places like airfields, railways, telecommunication sites, military bases and installations, working quarries and construction sites
• Visitor attractions or other places which charge for entry.

 

[filcon]

I was a wee bit taken aback also Shewie, it seems a favourite with the Montrose cops.

phil

 

[Bigfoot]

AFAIK The Trespass Act still exists but it's the amendments to it under the Land Reform Act that now provide much greater access rights. No-one's going to ask you to leave Scottish land unless you have contravened any aspects of the provisions in the LRA.

 

[Nagual]

Aye the Land Reform Act mentions the parts of the Trespass Act that it either supersedes or whatever. There will be cases where Police are uncertain or even ignorant of the correct law, as proven a year or so ago when a member here was asked to leave land. He later made a complaint which was upheld, and he got an apology. Still he shouldn't have had to jump through hoops to get one, nor should he have been removed from the land. It highlights that without correct training, even the Police can get it wrong.

 

[filcon]

The reason this subject was raised is following the programme the Scottish Travellers. Personally I thought they used poor judgement camping so close to public services, ie Golf course and Montrose shoreline.
The Police were intimidating them and then dug out Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865, section 3.Having trolled through this Act, I think its the reference to " permanency" why they would keep this Act. However it,s the Police interpretation of "permanency" I would like to know.
Mark that has always stuck with me also, the competance and interpretation of the police whilst enforcing the laws. The majority of laws and legislation is tweeked to suit Law Enforcement. Baffle and Bull to hoodwink the fool.
Always be reasonable and expect them also to be reasonable.

phil

 

[Paul_B]

I do find it amazing how people can expect the police to know every law. How many solicitors walking down the street can give you chapter and verse on any aspect of the law and they have longer and more specialist training. Give them a break.

As far as the Trespass act goes and their use in that situation I would suggest it wasn't the police's interpretation of that law that was wrong but their legal office. I have no idea what it is like in Scotland but any English police officer can send an email off to a certain office based in London IIRC on any aspect of law. That office is staffed iwth solicitors who then find the answer out. I am sure Scottish coppers do the same. If you disagree with their interpretation in this instance please be aware that the likelihood it was some copper who made the determination on this I am confident that you are wrong in that. They might have asked how to serve the fixed residents of that town by removing the travellers legally and that office (the Scottish version that is) probably looked this law up and perhaps incorrectly gave them the justification of that act.

All I am saying is don't blame the police as they are probably as mis-informed as anyone else on the finer aspects of trespass law.

BTW I have no views for or against either side in the issues with travellers. I don't get bothered by them and I don't bother them back if you know what I'm trying to say. However I hear enough about the travellers in our area (mostly resident now). There are a lot of good people and a lot of theiving buggers too. Guess that is like the non-travellers I know through work too. Although some are quite daft. like the ones who tried ot steal the copper buss bars and cabling in an empty industrial building on our estate. They assumed it was turned off but the supply had to be on as it supplied another building on the site through it so it had to be live. The sparky came in on the Monday to fix the power problem and found the screwdriver the guy had used had been welded to the bus bar!! The police where called in and the implement recovered. Then they went off to the hospital and nicked the first guy with massive electrical burns and the mate by his bed. Thair van was checked and a lot of stolen stuff was in it. Anyway the guy had quite painful electrical burns and some very fixed accomodation supplied for a bit.

Anyway Sorry about off topic. All I meant to say is the advice on the travellers removal up there was probably on the advice of solicitors not the police directly. Fault is not theirs directly I reckon.

 

[Paul_B]

However the intimidation was probably down to the police. They are nowhere near perfect but human beigns afterall subject to prejudice like EVERYONE else is.

 

[verloc]

Twas me and Stooboy and without rehashing the story - I still maintain that if a force covers a semi-rural area like Angus then they need to know the appropriate legislation. I can understand Tayside Police not having much use for Land Access rights in the centre of Dundee but it is very appropriate in Angus. Anyway thread is here if anyone is interested.

 

[filcon]

Thanks for that Verloc , well done pal.You played your cards well.

phil

 

[verloc]

It was -8*C that night and we had our breakfast, brew kits and stoves within reach of our Bivvis - fully planned to have breakfast without getting up and then surface with a belly full of hot coffee. I think the Constables would have preferred to be in Arbroath nick having similar as well
We went back to the spot once for a wee overnighter but after only being there for 20mins we were aware of someone skirting around the woods watching us - assumed it was the land owner. Went to walk over a couple of times but he kinda turned away and walked off but came back to watch us - so we had a brew and left.