Growing early ( as in Iron Age/ Saxon ) food plants?

[goodlife]

There is still many very old food plants around!
'wild leeks'...eg. variety called Babbington leek, chives, garlics all those have been around for ages. Brassicas..there is kales and turnips..though actual 'varieties' might be hard to point out. Many plants, now thought be 'weeds' were valuable food source that were cultivated as such too. Nettles, fat hen, alexanders, spignel, pignut. Those days they didn't breed anything to be 'pure'. But there is still lot of 'heritage' ones around and wild ones of course.
Supplier for heritage/old varieties..
http://www.thomasetty.co.uk/index.html
http://www.realseeds.co.uk/
http://www.pennardplants.com/index.php
http://www.poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk/catalogue1.asp
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/index.php
http://b-and-t-world-seeds.com/
I could go on and on.. BUT..here http://www.pfaf.org/user/default.aspx is good site to give you info of what can be eaten/used from the plant world..I have found many natives plants/trees/shrubs that I wasn't aware that were useable/edible....I'm sure they've been used more back in history..the knowledge of them just have been forgotten over the years!

 

[goodlife]

here is list of medieval and celtic food plants that maybe interest for you..
http://www.katjaorlova.com/HerbalismPaperPlantsGarden.html
http://www.academia.edu/1488019/Celtic_and_Romano_British_Foods_from_the_Isles-_a_General_Approach

 

[Toddy]

I'd take the last one with a very big pinch of salt.

M

 

[goodlife]

Why? what is wrong with the 'list' of plants? May I say that I'm not after debate but just simply interested your dismissive response.
I don't claim to be expert, but those plants are repeated through many sources..I just added those two links as they had plants in more of 'easy list' form.
Yourself recommended Jacquie Woods book ..author is one of the credited link sources for one of the links.

 

[tombear]

Hi folks, thanks for all your help. I've knackered everyone up doing heavy garden ending since 2 so I'm going to collapse in a heap.

Toddy, jnr is very interested in the seedlings you mentioned, I'll get him to do a list of what he is after when he can sit up again. I rather overworked them. Didn't break ground on their plots today, had a lot of work on the perimeter sorting fences and resetting the huge slabs they use for field boundaries in this part of Lancs.

oh and T really interested in the loganberry! Thanks!

Soooeees! Been called so off to eat, am ravenous!

atb

Tom

 

[Toddy]

He's very welcome Tom, and I'll see about getting a rooted cutting of the loganberry. You don't want blackcurrant too, do you ?

Goodlife; it's more the way the lady writes so blithely without giving details. Her bio talks about a celtic persona that she has 'created' and says she's a student at uni. The list at the end is a real mismash of sound and off the wall. If she turned that essay into her Uni lecturers I firmly suspect that she would have a tremendous redraft to do.
I openly admit that an enthusiastic and industrious amateur can often have a wider scope than a narrow focused professional, but the devil is always in the detail.

A great many of the so called 'celtic' fields were not ploughed with iron shod ploughs.

Iron shod plough with coulters were not the common agriculture of the period the lady claims, and though it is known that the Romans came to the British isles partially to source new supply lines of bread flour (that the British were exporting to Gaul) it was the un-over exploited and exhausted soils that were the source of the cropping, not a novel plough. The grain was of the type that had a break point just below the head. The spoked barrow simply knocked the heads off and gathered them up. The same technique was known of on the continent.
The British climate at the time when the Romans first colonised (predating the Saxon incursions) was a couple of degrees warmer than it is now. Lands that are now sub marginal were then actively cropped. Excavation frequently shows ard marks on the undersoils.

http://www.butser.org.uk/iafplo_hcc.html

http://www.ambaile.org.uk/en/education/crofting/src3.jsp

http://www.ploughmen.co.uk/ploughhistory.htm

Small areas of good land in choice spots can grow crops every bit as effectively as large fields, and I suspect that's more what Tom's lads could manage.

The first link to the Medieval herbs isn't suitable for the UK. Oranges for instance don't grow here, neither do pomegranates. Mandrake and others aren't the kind of thing to be grown in a domestic plot like this either.
Sorry if I sound negative, but healing herbs, seasoning herbs, companion planting herbs, domestic herbs, of the period, are very different things from modern 'magical' interpretation of their doctrine of signatures.

Surely among us we can pot up enough usefuls though ?

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

I can probably do thirty to fifty

 

[Toddy]

Beat my list, I was thinking about my offsets, etc., and I think I'm up to about 20 ish that would suit.
Probably a lot of overlap between us though.

If Tom susses out a list, it's a good time to lift and post

Talking of Tom....Tom, rushes; what length ? I haven't cut the ones I grow for cordage, this Winter, and they're big and thick. If you tell me how long you need, I'll see about picking out the thickest ones for you.

M

 

[British Red]

He can come and pick out what he wants from here though

 

[tombear]

Thanks for all the input folks. I need to type out th list gloops worked out with his mothers assistance. He was pretty sensible, no belladonna, no foxgloves etc.

Looking at the size of the plot I was considering hiring/ borrowing a rotovator after some heavy weeding, mowing and removing of rocks etc. How difficult are they to use for a numpty like me?

Rain has stopped play today, no carboot either so her selfs bottom lip is out.

atb

Tom

 

[Mesquite]

Looking at the size of the plot I was considering hiring/ borrowing a rotovator after some heavy weeding, mowing and removing of rocks etc. How difficult are they to use for a numpty like me?

They're not difficult at all to use so long as you're sensible about it.

The thing you've got to watch out for is the machine kicking or bucking when it hits a hidden object like a brick or a thick tree root.

I always found it was better to do several passes and increase the depth a couple of inches with each pass and that usually kept the bucking down plus meant the machine wasn't struggling.

 

[historymerchants]

Hi, I'm involved in Medieval re-enactment and I think what you are doing is great idea. We try to get as close as we can to using historical stuff for cooking displays, but not many places sell white, yellow or purple carrots. Last year I had a play and grew some Carlin (marple, pigeon) peas. These are a native pea to the Uk since the neolithic period. This page has some info about them. http://adambalic.typepad.com/the_art_and_mystery_of_fo/2007/02/left_maple_peas.html

The ones I used to grow from came from a local booths. I started them off the end of March last year in toilet roll tubes in a unheated greenhouse. They went made. We set them up growing on running bean frame we use. It's 6 foot tall. The peas must of grown to 8-9 feet. So bigger frame this year. We got a very good crop from them and have saved a load of seed back for this year. If you PM me with your address details I'll get some of our seed batch in the post to you.

Have fun and good luck.

 

[boatman]

For our Roman life display, along with selling votive offerings, we create a mini Roman garden as a table top layout with mini water features and statue with pots of appropriate herbs. This a nice list, some of which we display, that might be appropriate for a corner of your garden. Perhaps you are moving up in status towards Thegn but as long as you construct a bell tower that will be alright.
http://www.romanobritain.org/13_roman_medical/roman_herbs_and_medicines.html#.UxMG0_l_uSo

 

[British Red]

Looking at the size of the plot I was considering hiring/ borrowing a rotovator after some heavy weeding, mowing and removing of rocks etc. How difficult are they to use for a numpty like me?

They are dead easy Tom - get a big engined one and make sure it has reverse. Really cheap ones have to be dragged backwards and that can be hard work. I can talk you through the pros and cons of different types but if its a hire company one it will probably be okay - and you won't get a big choice

 

[tombear]

Thanks, Lots of stuff to think over there folks, much appreciated!

Cheers Toddy but for once I'm good for rush dips, got loads made up. Normally I'd have your arm off but I've plenty.

Gotta go, the phone!

ATB

Tom

 

[xylaria]

I might be able to get wild parsnip and wild carrot seeds. I get a lot of wild parsnip in my area, my sister who is forty miles westward gets wild carrot ( they grow in her garden). I don't know if there are still seeds about. In normal years I could put my hands on wild radish and sea beet seed this time of year but the beaches have been hammered and I don't where anything is.

 

[tombear]

Thanks very much!


once the lads wants medicinal plant list is in a format I can cut and paste here I'll get it up.


if in the mean time the kind souls who have offered could amend the list of veg that we are looking for to say which sort they can supply, or that we have missed and they can supply. People are being very generous with their time and stocks so if we avoid duplication we'll be messing people about least I reckon. We will be happy to cover costs, postage etc. For some reason a garden supplied by the community here seems more fitting than one bought from some big seed firm. Since I have a lousy memory I will mark the labelling stick things with where the seeds come from as well as their names, modern, A/S and Latin. I suppose I should get the lads some decent journals to keep logs of each plot.

peas
beans
cabage
parsnips
turnips
leeks
onions
white and other ancient carrots
cucumber
wild garlic

If it stays fine today i'll get them out back after school for some healthy exercise.

Once again thanks for all the help and perhaps more important since I'm not a natural gardener, the encouragement.

ATB

Tom

 

[British Red]

Hi Tom,

I can supply peas, beans and parsnips from seeds I have saved / produced from my own crops. Indeed with the beans I can offer several strains, but from my own reading I think it is field beans you want? I have primitive climbing beans as well if you want them - just let me know. They are all open pollinated varieties so you can save your own seed for previous years.

I don't have bulb onion seed at the moment (wrong time of year) but I may be able to find some Welsh Onion (a perpetual onion like a very large chive or bunching Spring Onion). I have Wild Garlic and can seed save some for you after it flowers this year. I don't produce seed for the rest currently - but I can tell you where to get it of no-one has some.

Red

 

[tombear]

That sounds grand Red, thanks!

Despite excellent weather we got nowt done after school in the garden I'd been out all day and the lads were in after school clubs so it was 4.30 before we had had tea. Oops.

atb

tom

 

[Parbajtor]

In Hungary, "white carrot" is actually parsley root (Humboldt parsley). I have some seeds if you want.
You might also want to consider planting Mespils/Medlars/Noszpolya (all the same thing) a small fruiting tree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mespilus http://wyrtig.com/GrowingHeirloomPlants/MespilusMedievalSources.htm The fruits are very similar in taste & texture to chestnut puree. My parents have a tree in their front garden.