Growing early ( as in Iron Age/ Saxon ) food plants?

[tombear]

I've not had much joy on what was probably badly worded searches but can anyone recommend books or sites about growing period vegetables?

i hope we haven't left it too late but since we have a large garden we have left fallow for the best part of ten years and have now started reclaiming it I was considering, along with my history nut spade mad, middle son, turn over part of it to growing some early/primitive/ crops for him to use in demonstration cookery.

Where would you get heirloom, I believe the term is, seeds and texts relating to them? Having a poke around this morning on the net it was quite confusing digging through some of the well, hippy stuff. Each to their own but if I can stick to the hard science end of things I'd be happier. Religion and philosophy I don't really need, no offence to those so inclined.

i was awful at biology at school and have a blind spot for identifying species so collecting wild carrots etc and replanting isn't a goer, really. (Patient people have tried to teach me, I've studied books and lord help me did a physical geography course that covered plants and especially Woodlands but it refuses to stick).

Cheers!

Tom

 

[British Red]

Heirloom seeds is a stupid term coined by hippies Tom.

What you are after is more properly called "open pollinated" seed. I can usually find most types as people round the world kindly send them to me. Let me know what you want when you figure out the history side - I'll see what I can do. Off the top of my head, beans (especially field and broad) and parsnip formed a major part of the diet. I can certainly sort you out with parsnip and field bean seed.

Red

 

[tombear]

Cheers, Red, as ever you are a star. Yeah I was getting bogged down in magic, religion, and stuff I find not being derogatory about quite difficult. As I said each to their own.

The Lads got two or three (I'm not sure if one was a library len)' books on Anglo Saxon food and cookery. So I will go through them. Wild or near wild carrot is definitely something we are after, ditto garlic. Cabbage, leeks, onions I'm not sure about, Ill get him to dig out the books when at home.

It all occurred to me late on in the year, a ever. If I'd started in the winter I could have got some research done. I think it will be good for him, and me, to do some digging etc and maybe expand his interests, at the mo' it's all chain armour and seaxs! I'd quite like to make him a wooden spade for a change. What I can't make my self I can probably get from Daegrad Tools over in Sheff'

http://daegrad.co.uk/page4.php

Anyway we have the bodies, the land and all the usual modern tools, I can get manure etc easy enough if the land needs some ( the weeds did very well).

The best thing is the kid digs like a mole, it must skip generations. The back lot was covered in slit trenches before I started filling them in.

More when I have. Better idea what we are after. The weathers due to be good the next Two days and the lands dried out some already. We have some digging to do, yard wide strips were we have 50 hawthorn whips to put in. A bit late I know but it was just too wet ( to get me outside, digging).

ATB

Tom

 

[boatman]

Have you the space to build a Sunken Featured Building or Grubenhaus "shed" to go with your AS garden? Garlic, onions etc indicate you are not making an Iron Age one. Good luck with the project. Living History is much more interesting than mock battles because it is real, fun though wearing mail and hitting people is.

 

[Toddy]

Jacquie Woods book on Prehistoric Cooking uses ingredients that are native. Worth a read

M

 

[tombear]

Yup, oddly enough we are thinking of putting up a mainly wooden, wattle and daub building up at the top end of the garden, if we ever have the spare cash, and yes it's Saxon stuff he 'll want to be growing. I say mainly as for longevity reasons we may cheat and not have wood going straight into the ground. It all depends on having spare money and time.

im not sure we'd go for a grub' as there's still ome debate as to they were A shaped above the hole or if there was a wooden floor above it etc its confusing! but it would be useful to have a open on one side workshop for doing smelly and loud stuff and for generally messing about in. And if I'm going to have one we may as well make it interesting.

First off do the bits we can with time, sweat and the cost of seeds. We need to do some research quick or lose another year.

Atb

Tom

Toddy, will see if I can get that book on inter library loan. Ta!

 

[mrcharly]

Would wild oats and barley have been used?

 

[Toddy]

Oat, barley, rye, emmer wheat....probably a mixture of wheats come to think on it.

Tom, you could pick a Saxon site, and we'll see if I can find a pollen analysis in the reports. From that we should be able to work out the crops they grew in the vicinity.

cheers,
M

 

[boatman]

Bede's World is great for a visit and this is their herb garden
http://www.bedesworld.co.uk/the-herb-garden/

 

[Toddy]

That would be so good to be closer

M

 

[tombear]

Well all the lads are home and they are all keen to have their own plots, Teds really eager, he's just gone out to pace out the garden to see how big it all is. Very roughly it's 25 metres by 15, which is what 80 feet by 50? I want to leave the top 20 feet for a hut and a fire pit the rest can be turned into their own gardens. All start off small I reckon.

apart fom the herb garden out front and a lot of hedgerow and trees I've no experience of gardening/ plant so this is all going to be new to me as ell a them. More or less accidentally I've picked up plenty of books on gardening and small holding. Better read them. The historical aspect with Teds plot will jolly me along some.

I'll have to see what's the nearest Saxon site that's been dug. Just as long as its not me counting the spahgnam moss spores or whatever they are. I once had two weeks dong that and I nearly wept with joy when there was a birch pollen or anything that wasn't spahgnam moss.... Cheers by the way!

Off to look up what we can plant in the Saxon plot.

ATB

Tom

Uw! some more while I was writing the above. Yup, planning on getting to Bedes World next time we visit The Wall, West Stow, and when we visit th I laws in Oxford head further South and see the Tudor Farm place and the Iron Age place that's not far from there. So much to see after last years wasted summer!

 

[boatman]

Don't forget Sutton Hoo if you are nearby at West Stow, oddly, the last time we visited neither had any leaflets advertising the other which was really odd. If it is Cockley Cley Iceni village http://www.museumsnorfolk.org.uk/iceni-village-nature-reserve-a-museums you are visiting then next to it is The Saxon Church of St Mary possibly built in 628 AD with its round apse.
http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?p=205987

Amazing place that was a cottage for years since the Reformation and its conversion into a cottage for the Parish Priest. Might be contemporary with King Raedwald the possible Sutton Hoo burial.

Out of period but it would be silly to miss Grimes Graves flint mines not too far away.

 

[tombear]

Aye, if we get that Far East it will be worth doing as many as possible. The end of the summer holidays we have the in laws cottage for the best part of 3 weeks so we will defiantly get to St Fagans and , I forget the name but the Iron Age place in West Wales. We took the kids there many years back but I think they know enough now to appreciate it more.

any hoo, the lad has been poring over the books and looking at th net and these are the veg he would like to do this year if we can find medieval strains of them.

peas
beans
cabage
parsnips
turnips
leeks
onions
white carrots
cucumber
wild garlic

I know there's a lot more but I don't want to over stretch him. Also we know we like these!

the eldest is quite interested in medicine so is thinking of planting some of the safer medicinal plants and, perversely some tobacco plants if he can get a few seedlings since its too late to grow them from seed by now.

i better crash, if they have one in we are off to Taramak in the morning as the eldest wants to blow the last of his birthday money on a DD Frontline Hammock as he was impressed by those the scout leaders had at winter camp last week. Well it's better than more smegging Warhammer figures!

atb and thanks!

Tom

 

[British Red]

Medieval strains could be a challenge

 

[tombear]

Well, as near as we can get. Are there still wild varieties of any of these available do you think?

ATB

tom

 

[British Red]

For parsnips and wild garlic for sure a type of wild onion definitely. Peas and beans? Not so much. Cabbage, turnip and cucumber? Not that I know of.

Open pollinated old varieties of all of them - definitely.

 

[tombear]

It sounds like a start. First we have to get the hawthorn in and some natural barbed wire type fruit bushes. Week start later today, assuming Tamarak had the hammock, otherwise we will be starting after breakfast.

Cheers!

Tom

 

[boatman]

Worts and all! Try one of the Coleworts for cabbage variety.

 

[Toddy]

Or Fat Hen and Good King Henry.....both are prolific seeders once they get going though, so be certain you don't mind hoeing out the surplus.....or you could just eat them as I do

Herbs for medicinals .....happy to help. Comfrey, feverfew, lemonbalm, meadowsweet and Lady's mantle are all in green already, and I can dig up and post. Masses of others. Some are both herb and food. Mallows for instance...I've got small ones potted up of those too.

Maybe make a list of what he'd like and we can see what we can manage amongst us ? No point swamping the lad.

Jaggy fruit bushes. I can probably dig up a root of the loganberry. It's a beautiful fruit, but the rest of the plant is a thorny nightmare.

atb,
M

 

[Coldfeet]

Jacquie Woods book on Prehistoric Cooking uses ingredients that are native. Worth a read

M

Just ordered the book, as it's an area of interest with myself as well, thanks for making me aware of it