Fuel for long distance trips

[cbr6fs]

all are with a normal pan.1 to 1 and1/2l a day for 10 days is 15l. Efficiently run in reasonable weather. boiling water. One 250g/410ml cartridge. Meths at 100ml/80g, 3 hexis per day, or 45ml/34g petrol 40ml/30g,parraffin roughly.

Not sure what you mean here, there is no context

Reactor from msr beats the pants off a jetboil sol ti, aluminium, simmer control, more efficient, wind resistant.

Where are you getting your figures from, take a gander here as BPL have the Jetboil as the most efficient by a fair old margin
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_efficiency_p3.html

I like to cook 3 times a day, and plenty of hot drinks and biscuits. Probably close to equaling 8l of water.if I do it efficiently my fuel for 5 days comes in at a kilo of gas, plus stove and pan windshieldetc. But if I run out I have to rough it and tough it out.

Are you talking 1kg of gas canisters or using the American term for petrol?

If you're talking 1kg of gas canisters then you're doing something wrong mate.
8 litres of boiled water per day is absolutely crazy, i'd bet money i don't use that much hot water per day at home

I usually boil around 500ml for breakfast.
I'll stick my boil in a bag breakfast in a pot of boiling water, stick a cosy over it and leave it for 10 mins.
I'll then eat the breakfast out of the packet and then make my cuppa out of the still hot water.

Mid day i usually eat something that doesn't require cooking, but if i do and have a cuppa i'll use the same system as above.
Likewise for the evening meal.

Usually i boil around 2 litres per day average and i can't say that i'm rationing at that, i have hot water whenever i want it.

2 litres per day usually means i'm seeing around 14 days use from a 460ml gas canister.
A 460ml gas canister usually weighs around 373g new, if i think i'm cutting it fine i'll throw in a 178ml canister in as well at around 163g.
So for 2 weeks camping i'm carrying around 500g or 1/2kg total fuel weight (inc canisters weight)

If i read rightly you are using 3 x 460ml gas canisters on a 5 day trip, that's absolutely mental mate.
You sure you're turning your stove off after using it

 

[British Red]

It probably all depends if you actually cook food or rely on freeze dried mush. Some people like to actually cook!

 

[rik_uk3]

Most tests I've seen show the Primus ETA beating the Jetboil in boil time.

All these tests, weighing fuel etc makes me wonder how I and thousands of others survived four season hill walking/climbing for so many years when we just took a Primus stove, set of Bulldog pans and cooked in the little mountain tents/Force 10's et al.

 

[petrochemicals]

it was just outlining the ammounts of fuel per day, but should read petrol 45ml 32g parrafin 40ml32g and gas cylinders are 220g, not the 250g camping gas ones.

I use 1kg gas cylinders or about 700g of gas. bacon eggs cornbeef hash nice n crispy. Alot of salt in those brings me back to being thirsty. Two 500ml cups of tea with breccie and three at night.

Email rodger caffin and first ask about the size of the reactor used, they now do 3 sizes. The age of it, it looks like he was using the original big old one. I will say that the jetboil does work better for small girly portions though!

The regulators really do work though, far better than the old style jetboils ? I remember always having half a cannister of butaine left that woulf just dribble out, as the old needle feed stoves where set for hot weather propane, and when thats gone and its raining, the butane just dribbles out without coaxing the cannister.

 

[jacko1066]

I don't no if this is any use to you Julia but I found it a great read - http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Efficiency.htm

Also a tool to calculate fuel usage but I'm sure you have already seen this - http://howardjohnson.name/Backpacking/Stove/Stoves.htm


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cbr6fs]

It probably all depends if you actually cook food or rely on freeze dried mush. Some people like to actually cook!

Completely understand that, but the op was talking about a multi-day trip, it's extremely difficult to take proper food on multi-day trips.

First off there aren't many non freeze dried or sealed foods that will last over 7 days non refrigerated.
Secondly those that do tend to be extremely heavy.

Even with dehydrated or freeze dried food your talking about 1kg of food daily
14 days = 14kg in food alone
If you start adding proper food the weight quickly starts to get out of hand.

PLUS you also have to start adding the weight of fuel as well if you start cooking, you also need a proper pan rather than a super thin lightweight pot.

No problem on day trips or even a 2 day camping trip, but anything over 5 days and it starts to get extremely tough to keep the weight sensible with real food and real cooking.

Most tests I've seen show the Primus ETA beating the Jetboil in boil time.

No experience with the ETA so i can't offer an opinion, only data i can draw on is the stuff i find from searching sites like BPL.

I know from experience my Jetboil is extremely efficient compared to my other stoves, again for 1 or 2 days it's no real worry but on 5 day plus trips it does start to add up.
Trust me, for me to recommend or use a Jetboil it has to offer something.

All these tests, weighing fuel etc makes me wonder how I and thousands of others survived four season hill walking/climbing for so many years when we just took a Primus stove, set of Bulldog pans and cooked in the little mountain tents/Force 10's et al.

Not really fair looking back with rose tinted glasses.
First off, there were no other options, so you either liked it or lumped it
Secondly, if there were lighter options people would have used them as they do now.
Thirdly, they are still an option if people want to use them, don't recon you'll find many takers compared to modern equipment though.

I strongly believe there has never been a better time for us outdoors enthusiasts.
We have such an extensive and varied amount of kit to choose from that it doesn't matter if never get 1m from your car or tackle 3000m mountains, there is kit out there for you.

We also have such a vast wealth of shared experiences and knowledge to draw from when it comes to choosing and using our kit.
What with forums, youtube and the internet we can communicate and share experiences and knowledge with millions around the planet instantly.

Then there is communication, i can enjoy my "alone time" up a mountain and still talk to the kids before they go to sleep.
I was sat on a rock on Crinkle Crags, the only spot i could find that had a phone signal, i sat there and talked to the kids via a video call and showed them where i was and shared their day with them.
Chances are 20 years ago i wouldn't have gone as i'd have felt bad about leaving the kids for 2 weeks and not being able to speak to them.

So it's fine donning the rose tinted glasses but modern kit has lots and lots of extremely useful points as well.

it was just outlining the ammounts of fuel per day, but should read petrol 45ml 32g parrafin 40ml32g and gas cylinders are 220g, not the 250g camping gas ones.

Makes sense now, thanks for clarifying

I use 1kg gas cylinders or about 700g of gas. bacon eggs cornbeef hash nice n crispy. Alot of salt in those brings me back to being thirsty. Two 500ml cups of tea with breccie and three at night.

You cant be hiking far with all that food and fuel though, how on earth would you carry it all and keep the bacon fresh after several days on the hills/mountains?

Email rodger caffin and first ask about the size of the reactor used, they now do 3 sizes. The age of it, it looks like he was using the original big old one. I will say that the jetboil does work better for small girly portions though!

I'm 5'8" and 90kg mate i think the last thing anyone would say about me is i eat girly portions
I usually use either a 900ml Evernew pot of the Jetboil cup at 800ml, can honestly say i've never once felt the need to take a bigger pot/cup.
900ml of rice, pasta, beans etc is wayyyyyyyyyyy more than i can eat in one sitting

The regulators really do work though, far better than the old style jetboils ? I remember always having half a cannister of butaine left that woulf just dribble out, as the old needle feed stoves where set for hot weather propane, and when thats gone and its raining, the butane just dribbles out without coaxing the cannister.

As said above in really cold conditions 100% sure you'll not use all the canister on a JB, but as i say that's exactly the same with any upright gas burner, it's simply a limitation of the gas canisters fuel.
For anything above 5c though the JB SOL burner tends to suck the canister dry, there is nothing left in my old canisters

 

[petrochemicals]

It's why I'm going biomass way, if you spend this long cooking there is no real trouble with time consuming fires, I stop for 1- 2 hours at lunch anyway, and the weight loss is worth it. Its a kilo of weight to drop.

Most of my pack is food water fuel- 8kg right there. As for the food, supermarket atmospheric sealed stuff is good, cans, etc.

 

[British Red]

Completely understand that, but the op was talking about a multi-day trip, it's extremely difficult to take proper food on multi-day trips.

I have never found it difficult, its really rather like your argument of "you can buy gas anywhere". Trust me, you really can buy food anywhere. Plenty of farms will still, with pleasure, supply eggs, veg, etc. Almost every tiny hamlet has a shop where you can get some veg, some fresh meat etc.

If I had to ultralight and eat freeze dried, I'd rather stay home to be honest. It strikes me as very poor planning to think that there would be no resupply possible for 14 days - there are very few places where that would be the case. Even 30+ years ago I could spend three weeks on Skye occasionally looping past a Youth hostel for a shower and to pick up a parcel with more fuel etc. in. I could also nip past a shop every few days for fresh veg and meat and a few dried or tinned items. Its really not difficult and people shoouldn't think that that they have to buy expensive rations to get out and about.

 

[cbr6fs]

It's why I'm going biomass way, if you spend this long cooking there is no real trouble with time consuming fires, I stop for 1- 2 hours at lunch anyway, and the weight loss is worth it. Its a kilo of weight to drop.

Most of my pack is food water fuel- 8kg right there. As for the food, supermarket atmospheric sealed stuff is good, cans, etc.

By biomass do you mean wood?

If so it's great if you can find a good supply of dry wood where you hike and they allow fires.
In my experience you still have to take a LOT of fire lighters, then there is a knife, maybe even a axe if you're intending bigger fires.
You also need thicker pots and pans, a shovel for burying the ashes, it all adds up, no such thing as a free lunch.

I have never found it difficult, its really rather like your argument of "you can buy gas anywhere". Trust me, you really can buy food anywhere. Plenty of farms will still, with pleasure, supply eggs, veg, etc. Almost every tiny hamlet has a shop where you can get some veg, some fresh meat etc.

If I had to ultralight and eat freeze dried, I'd rather stay home to be honest. It strikes me as very poor planning to think that there would be no resupply possible for 14 days - there are very few places where that would be the case. Even 30+ years ago I could spend three weeks on Skye occasionally looping past a Youth hostel for a shower and to pick up a parcel with more fuel etc. in. I could also nip past a shop every few days for fresh veg and meat and a few dried or tinned items. Its really not difficult and people shoouldn't think that that they have to buy expensive rations to get out and about.

Again though it really depends on where you are going.
Doing something like the Pennine way i agree, Skye is what 50 miles long and pretty narrow?
So your never really far from somewhere.
If you nip across to some of the remote areas of Scotland though you can hike 4 days in the mountains without coming anywhere near 5km to a farm.
5km there, 5km back is near on a days walk for most folk carrying their tent, sleeping bag etc.

The other thing is that although what you are saying seems logical in theory in practice it's a completely different matter.
In my experience farmers tend to be a bit wary and sometimes plain arsey when dirty, smelly folks knock on their door and ask if they have any food to sell.

Local stores might seem like a great idea and they are IF you can get to them during opening times.
Again sounds easy but in practice you'll be wanting to spend 09:00-17:00 doing the thing you set out to do i.e. hiking, not shopping.

Throw in a foreign country where you don't speak the language well and it just adds to the unreliability of finding food on the way.

Don't get me wrong, i've done it and will probably have to do it again in the future.
But i've also gone hungry because local stores were closed, farmers didn't have anything to sell (or didn't want to) or it was just too far to hike down to a farm/village and back again.

So these days ideally i carry enough food for the trip.
If it's a long trip i'll try and have a day to drop down into a large town to resupply, in the UK you can usually do this every 4 days or so, in areas of Greece that's a LOT tougher.

I've got a hike up Mount Olympus in a few weeks, it's just a noggin under 3000m, it'll be a 2 day hike/scramble to the top, then we'll drop down and spend a few more days in the area.
Nearest village is around 10km away (one way), fresh fruit and veg won't last much more than a day or 2 at temps above 35c while being knocked about in a rucksack.

Trust me, even if they lasted the whole trip you'd be dropping your tinned food and fresh veg within the first 5 miles once the climb starts.

So what are the options?
It's either dehydrated, freeze dried or boil in the bag packaged food as far as i can see.
They don't NEED to be expensive either, if you have a dehydrator you can make your own, throw in a vacuum sealer and your sorted.

As i say in theory yep i would agree that resupply seems easy, in practice though it just doesn't work like that all the time and unless you know the area really well there is a high risk that your searching for resupply might be to no avail.

As i've said before it's pretty pointless judging other peoples gear choice unless you do the same sort of activities as that person in the same sort of areas on the same sort of terrain.

 

[British Red]

But you do judge them - all the time in your posts

I have been walking with a pack on long trips for decades and have managed quite nicely thank you without falling prey to the ultralight fad. You can eat real food and have a nice walk and a camp - I have indisputable evidence - I do it.

Really, your way is not the only way. If you like freeze dried food and limiting your cups of tea, have at it, but it isn't the only way to camp, or hike, or back pack. It doesn't all have to be a slog, or a competition for the lightest pack and the most miles covered - nor should you be "dirty and smelly" - if your hygiene is bad, you really need to sort your skills out - there really is no need to neglect personal care - this is supposed to be a pleasure activity, not some macho endurance test.

 

[rik_uk3]

Completely understand that, but the op was talking about a multi-day trip, it's extremely difficult to take proper food on multi-day trips.

First off there aren't many non freeze dried or sealed foods that will last over 7 days non refrigerated.
Secondly those that do tend to be extremely heavy.

Even with dehydrated or freeze dried food your talking about 1kg of food daily
14 days = 14kg in food alone
If you start adding proper food the weight quickly starts to get out of hand.

PLUS you also have to start adding the weight of fuel as well if you start cooking, you also need a proper pan rather than a super thin lightweight pot.

No problem on day trips or even a 2 day camping trip, but anything over 5 days and it starts to get extremely tough to keep the weight sensible with real food and real cooking.



No experience with the ETA so i can't offer an opinion, only data i can draw on is the stuff i find from searching sites like BPL.

I know from experience my Jetboil is extremely efficient compared to my other stoves, again for 1 or 2 days it's no real worry but on 5 day plus trips it does start to add up.
Trust me, for me to recommend or use a Jetboil it has to offer something.



Not really fair looking back with rose tinted glasses.
First off, there were no other options, so you either liked it or lumped it
Secondly, if there were lighter options people would have used them as they do now.
Thirdly, they are still an option if people want to use them, don't recon you'll find many takers compared to modern equipment though.

I strongly believe there has never been a better time for us outdoors enthusiasts.
We have such an extensive and varied amount of kit to choose from that it doesn't matter if never get 1m from your car or tackle 3000m mountains, there is kit out there for you.

We also have such a vast wealth of shared experiences and knowledge to draw from when it comes to choosing and using our kit.
What with forums, youtube and the internet we can communicate and share experiences and knowledge with millions around the planet instantly.

Then there is communication, i can enjoy my "alone time" up a mountain and still talk to the kids before they go to sleep.
I was sat on a rock on Crinkle Crags, the only spot i could find that had a phone signal, i sat there and talked to the kids via a video call and showed them where i was and shared their day with them.
Chances are 20 years ago i wouldn't have gone as i'd have felt bad about leaving the kids for 2 weeks and not being able to speak to them.

So it's fine donning the rose tinted glasses but modern kit has lots and lots of extremely useful points as well.



Makes sense now, thanks for clarifying




You cant be hiking far with all that food and fuel though, how on earth would you carry it all and keep the bacon fresh after several days on the hills/mountains?





I'm 5'8" and 90kg mate i think the last thing anyone would say about me is i eat girly portions
I usually use either a 900ml Evernew pot of the Jetboil cup at 800ml, can honestly say i've never once felt the need to take a bigger pot/cup.
900ml of rice, pasta, beans etc is wayyyyyyyyyyy more than i can eat in one sitting



As said above in really cold conditions 100% sure you'll not use all the canister on a JB, but as i say that's exactly the same with any upright gas burner, it's simply a limitation of the gas canisters fuel.
For anything above 5c though the JB SOL burner tends to suck the canister dry, there is nothing left in my old canisters

Pasta, rice, couscous, polenta, salami, vac packed bacon, dried milk, sugar, chocolate will all last a week or more.

Nowt wrong with a proper pan, you can pack stuff in it when hiking.

No other options in the 60's? What utter tosh, golly we even had dried food then...smash, veg, complete meals too but the likes of corned beef, cheese, tinned beans still had their place because they helped make good meals...still do today.

I suggest you gain personal experience of the likes of the ETA stove or pots with heat exchangers rather than relying on reviews on web sites.

Any chance of your diatribes on UL hiking anyday soon or will it run into season two?

 

[cbr6fs]

But you do judge them - all the time in your posts

I have been walking with a pack on long trips for decades and have managed quite nicely thank you without falling prey to the ultralight fad. You can eat real food and have a nice walk and a camp - I have indisputable evidence - I do it.

Really, your way is not the only way. If you like freeze dried food and limiting your cups of tea, have at it, but it isn't the only way to camp, or hike, or back pack. It doesn't all have to be a slog, or a competition for the lightest pack and the most miles covered - nor should you be "dirty and smelly" - if your hygiene is bad, you really need to sort your skills out - there really is no need to neglect personal care - this is supposed to be a pleasure activity, not some macho endurance test.

I've not judged anyone, i'm merely giving my opinion based upon my experiences, if someone finds a better solution for their type of activities good on em.

As i've said a few times now, there is walking and there is walking.
If your walking is low mileage low height gain then weight is not going to be as much of a concern as if your hiking 3000m up a mountain doing 20 miles a day, that's just common sense.

If you asked me how long it'd take to plant a 5m long bed with turnips i'd have no idea, sitting here with no experience of planting turnips i'd offer a guess of about 5 mins.
If you turned around and told me it took 1 hour because you needed to planet the seeds carefully or turn the soil i'd trust your opinion as i know it's based upon experience.

What you are doing is arguing against and belittling peoples opinions even though you have absolutely no experience of the type of terrain, weather, and difficulty levels.

I don't enjoy freeze dried meals, i do enjoy a 8 hour hike slightly more if my pack is lighter though.
I've never once restricted myself on cups of tea, neither have i ever rationed my fuel.

Again if you try to cover 20 miles in a day and do anything over 1000m of ascent it IS a slog.
I don't care if you are a marathon runner, carrying 12 to 14kg over that sort of distance over that sort of height gain you ARE gonna feel it.
It's only after you've suffered that you start to look towards saving weight were practically possible.

With regards to hygiene, again 5 days hiking on and around rain soaked mountains what are the options in your opinion?

You can't wash the clothes as they simply won't get dry.
I keep myself clean, but there is not a lot you can do with regards to cleaning your clothes.
If i take a fresh set of clothing for each day that's about 300g per top and 400g for trousers, 5 days would mean 3.5kg in extra clothing.
Again no real problem when walking canal paths or over Lincolnshire "mountains" but when putting in any distance or height it's a major load to carry for no real reason, cause you're going to sweat your togs off anyways.

Lastly,
Who are you to judge what i find pleasurable?
You have absolutely no idea who i am, you have from zero to very little knowledge of Greece and the areas i hike, yet you making a sweeping statement to infer that i'm looking at it as some sort of macho endurance test.

I have a family, work for a living and have commitments so my hiking time is squeezed into what free time i have.
When i plan a trip i try to take in as many interesting points as possible, it's not necessarily peaks i'm aiming for, maybe i'll add 5 miles to a days hiking if it means i have a nice mountain lake or camping spot for the night.
So i try to cram in as many experiences as possible, that often means a few days of getting my head down and putting some mileage and/or ascent.
As it's my legs, my legs and my lungs that are feeling it that's my choice.
It's also my legs and back that is carrying the weight in my rucksack, so again as a grown adult it's my choice what i pack, what i eat and what i cook with.

If you did the same route with tinned food and fresh veg i'd happily re-evaluate my choices.
As it is you're trying to tell other people how to live their lives with absolutely no experience or knowledge of the efforts or experiences involved.

 

[widu13]

Guys, cb6fs seems to be taking some knocks here. I am just transitioning to lightweight backpacking (slowly because it's not cheap to get set up) have about 40 stoves (really) of all fuel types. You have to rely on net reviews otherwise I would have 140 stoves! I was totally against the Jetboil for instance, but got one free with a magazine subscription. It DOES cook, from simmer to boil and the whole food range except pancakes with the stock pan. It's not heavy but I can get a better and lighter pan with a Ti burner that is more versatile but it's not as protected from the wind etc so needs a windscreen. The point is that I would never had bought a JB despite the good reviews.

I now measure and weigh my kit. When I was in the mob I thought nothing of throwing what I wanted in a rucksack and bimbling off; on one occasion with a bag weighing 27kg. A 3 day trip, I now can do with 12kg INCLUDING food and 1.5L of water. There could be more done but I can't afford it.

The point is; and I poo pooed this before, is that the days walk really is more enjoyable. I recently did a 50 mile walk over 3 days without a single blister and I wasn't dreading the next day when I awoke each morning. The journey before that I carried 18kg and whilst it was a a good walk, I was knackered and it was hard.

It's taken me decades to get around to going lightweight and I can't understand why I didn't do it before. cbr6fs seems passionate about his ethos that's his choice and from my pov it makes perfect sense, I don't see it's worth knocking an individual or a group of people who enjoy doing it another way. Just like some can't fathom why you don't want to carry tins, I can't understand why you would, or an Optimus 123R stove for instance (which I have). Likewise, you CANNOT do some of the walks in the UK using fresh food and resupply unless you walk out of the way to visit places off of the route.

Anyway I/we have gone way off topic and a multi fuel burner will never be light but it will be convenient. It's a judgement call.

 

[cbr6fs]

Pasta, rice, couscous, polenta, salami, vac packed bacon, dried milk, sugar, chocolate will all last a week or more.

Nowt wrong with a proper pan, you can pack stuff in it when hiking.

No other options in the 60's? What utter tosh, golly we even had dried food then...smash, veg, complete meals too but the likes of corned beef, cheese, tinned beans still had their place because they helped make good meals...still do today.

I suggest you gain personal experience of the likes of the ETA stove or pots with heat exchangers rather than relying on reviews on web sites.

Any chance of your diatribes on UL hiking anyday soon or will it run into season two?

Sorry mate, i absolutely refuse to talk about kit i take hiking with someone that's admittedly not hiked in years.

Your rose tinted glasses and vague memories of hiking with old kit do not qualify you to dictate on the kit i take or my decision process for taking them.

Doing a bit of backpacking 30 years ago does not afford you the right to question everyone elses choices for the rest of your life.

I'm not being funny here, but unless folks are putting feet on rock/mud and doing 15+ miles a day over 800m+ of ascent it's absolutely pointless judging peoples choices of food and cooking implements.

I didn't wake up one morning and decide to throw lots of money at kit, i've hiked, camped and made subtle changes over the years.
That's a direct result of hours, days and even weeks plodding up and around hills.

Unless your feet have gone in those exact same tracks anything tirades and tantrums about my kit choice is wrong and absolutely pointless.

Again sorry if that comes off a bit strong, i enjoy your opinions and even if i don't agree it gives me pause to think and revisit my opinion usually.

In this case though you are like a bird telling a Dolphin how to swim.
In this case your opinion HAS to have some real world and consistent experience behind it otherwise it's pointless.

You are telling others what food and cooking equipment to carry yet do not carry the kit yourself.
How can you discount peoples real world and regular experiences against something you no longer do.
It's a bit daft

 

[mrcharly]

I don't know where the OP is going, but I can think of one area where biomass/woodfires are absolutely illegal - Western Australian forest trails. Hundreds of miles of trails though woodland and you are simply not allowed wood fires. Gas or liquid fueled stoves only.

A year or two back I made a lynx can meths stove - it is pretty robust, designed for the pan to sit directly on it. No risk of it being crushed in a backpack. Faster than a trangia burner, and super lightweight. They are really easy to make.

 

[cbr6fs]

Guys, cb6fs seems to be taking some knocks here. I am just transitioning to lightweight backpacking (slowly because it's not cheap to get set up) have about 40 stoves (really) of all fuel types. You have to rely on net reviews otherwise I would have 140 stoves! I was totally against the Jetboil for instance, but got one free with a magazine subscription. It DOES cook, from simmer to boil and the whole food range except pancakes with the stock pan. It's not heavy but I can get a better and lighter pan with a Ti burner that is more versatile but it's not as protected from the wind etc so needs a windscreen. The point is that I would never had bought a JB despite the good reviews.

I now measure and weigh my kit. When I was in the mob I thought nothing of throwing what I wanted in a rucksack and bimbling off; on one occasion with a bag weighing 27kg. A 3 day trip, I now can do with 12kg INCLUDING food and 1.5L of water. There could be more done but I can't afford it.

The point is; and I poo pooed this before, is that the days walk really is more enjoyable. I recently did a 50 mile walk over 3 days without a single blister and I wasn't dreading the next day when I awoke each morning. The journey before that I carried 18kg and whilst it was a a good walk, I was knackered and it was hard.

It's taken me decades to get around to going lightweight and I can't understand why I didn't do it before. cbr6fs seems passionate about his ethos that's his choice and from my pov it makes perfect sense, I don't see it's worth knocking an individual or a group of people who enjoy doing it another way. Just like some can't fathom why you don't want to carry tins, I can't understand why you would, or an Optimus 123R stove for instance (which I have). Likewise, you CANNOT do some of the walks in the UK using fresh food and resupply unless you walk out of the way to visit places off of the route.

Anyway I/we have gone way off topic and a multi fuel burner will never be light but it will be convenient. It's a judgement call.

Great post.

I really don't mind people challenging my kit choices.
It gives me pause to re-evaluate and question my choices, which is always a good thing IMO.

My problem is when folks that don't do the same sort of activities at the same activity level as you start to belittle your kit choices.

 

[ADz-1983]

Very well said.

 

[rik_uk3]

Sorry mate, i absolutely refuse to talk about kit i take hiking with someone that's admittedly not hiked in years.

Your rose tinted glasses and vague memories of hiking with old kit do not qualify you to dictate on the kit i take or my decision process for taking them.

Doing a bit of backpacking 30 years ago does not afford you the right to question everyone elses choices for the rest of your life.

I'm not being funny here, but unless folks are putting feet on rock/mud and doing 15+ miles a day over 800m+ of ascent it's absolutely pointless judging peoples choices of food and cooking implements.

I didn't wake up one morning and decide to throw lots of money at kit, i've hiked, camped and made subtle changes over the years.
That's a direct result of hours, days and even weeks plodding up and around hills.

Unless your feet have gone in those exact same tracks anything tirades and tantrums about my kit choice is wrong and absolutely pointless.

Again sorry if that comes off a bit strong, i enjoy your opinions and even if i don't agree it gives me pause to think and revisit my opinion usually.

In this case though you are like a bird telling a Dolphin how to swim.
In this case your opinion HAS to have some real world and consistent experience behind it otherwise it's pointless.

You are telling others what food and cooking equipment to carry yet do not carry the kit yourself.
How can you discount peoples real world and regular experiences against something you no longer do.
It's a bit daft

I stopped hiking when I caught TB in 2007.

Your the one lecturing...constantly...here or other sites your still allowed to post on

 

[cbr6fs]

I stopped hiking when I caught TB in 2007.

Your the one lecturing...constantly...here or other sites your still allowed to post on

Mate please do me a favour.

Please take a look back at the posts you feel i'm lecturing on.
I have, and on all the posts you've accused me of "lecturing" or "going on" about my posts were mainly in defence of your accusations and questioning of my opinions.

To the point where you dragged up a 2 month old post to have a go at me about.

I know we've "bumped heads" on several occasions and there have been a few "snippy" comments made on both sides, but i always felt there was a mutual respect, there certainly was on my side.

Now you seem to have a agenda against me and you seem to actively seek out posts of mine to get outraged about.
Even worse, when i post explaining my opinion in what i feel is a non offensive calm way, you answer with snippy comments and nit pick to try and take the thread off track.

I have absolutely no bad blood towards you, i'd happily stop by for a pint if i was passing, i think face to face most of your snipes would be put down to banter.
Hopefully we can get back to disagreeing but with mutual respect for each others opinions rather than you taking cheap snide shots.

Fingers crossed.

Mods,
Sorry if my post is off-topic, i just wanted to show i have absolutely no mean intentions with my previous post.
There is disagreeing with someone opinions and then there is stalking some ones posts in the hope of blowing up disagreements out of all proportions to get to a personal level.
I will not be baited into that.

 

[ged]

....It's a massive set of simultaneous equations ...

Actually it's an optimization problem, but this is as far as I got in this thread before running out of steam. There's a lot of good information here but it seems to be meandering.
One point I thought hadn't been sufficiently aired is that it's the efficiency of the entire heating system that matters if you care about weight on a trip, not just that of the burner.
One poster claimed to use 30ml if meths to boil 500ml of water (from some unknown starting temperature) but that seems excessive to me. In a Trangia 25 I would expect to be able to make a brew or a meal with that sort of quantity of water using half as much meths.
Still less meths in a more efficient setup, if you can find one.

As has been noted, road fuel (petrol/gasoline) is awful stuff - my most recent experience of how awful was two nights ago when the a fuel pipe on the Hayabusa came adrift, and my hands have only just stopped smelling of it.
It kinda baffles me how anybody can talk about filling up a half-litre bottle from the pumps and then grumble about hexy. All you need to do is set the stove downwind. It says that, or something like it, right there on the packet.
Fuels don't get much safer than hexamine, and if you can grumble about hexy you can live without cooking.

In my (regrettably now very long) experience the most pleasant hydrocarbon fuel to use is aviation spirit (Santaman's avgas), which unlike road fuels leaves practically nothing behind when it evaporates. Not even a smell.
Unfortunately because of regulation it's not all that easy to buy in the UK, but if you fly (unless of course you fly a jet) you can save the bit that you have to drain from the tanks on the pre-flight check instead of letting it slop on the grass.
And you can make especially sure there's no water in there by draining more than might strictly be necessary.