French government expected to issue all citizens with survival manual

[Keith_Beef]

I'd expect they do have them, with all the laws around keeping things cold throughout supply chain and the potential losses that'd be incurred from having to replace a whole supermarket of chilled/frozen stock.

It's possible I am wrong and am just assuming too much of them though!

Over here, there doesn't seem to be a legal requirement for food shops to have their own back-up generators...

I suppose that big food retail companies might have contracts with electricity suppliers that "guarantee" supply and cover the value of lost stock or cover the cost of renting generators in the event of not meeting the contract to supply. Or they might have contracts with Liquid Air to provide dry ice pellets at short notice...

 

[MrEd]

In a previous career I was a junior manager at a major UK supermarket, part of my role was overseeing the big diesel generator we had on site, and doing monthly changeover tests, and weekly run tests. It powered the bulk freezers and chillers, shop floor freezers and chillers, every 2nd strip light in the place and the cash office room and alarm. IIRC the plugs and electrical fittings that had generator backup were a different colour (but I can’t remember what).
I can’t remember what size it was, but it was pretty large, out in a generator shed and we had enough fuel for 48hours on site in a combo of a bunded tank thing and 4 50gal barrels on a pallet and a manual rotary pump . It was only intended to cover short term power loss.
I am sure the fuel in the tank and the barrels was changed but it don’t ever recall it being done, I was there for about 4 years.
I don’t know if the same is done nowadays, this was 25 years ago, next time I go to my local Tesco I will have a nosey!

 

[ONE]

One of my grandfathers was fond of saying "What people don't know doesn't hurt them" it's not universally true, but in regard of "prepping" it's a pretty useful maxim.

 

[Keith_Beef]

‘Shipwrecked in the 21st century’: how people made it through Europe’s worst blackout in living memory

Daring rescues were attempted, quick commutes turned into hours-long odysseys, cars were directed by baguettes – but the show went on in the world’s best restaurant

www.theguardian.com

 

[British Red]

There are strict rules concerning the amount of fuel that you're allowed to store in jerry cans at home; in the UK this is 30 litres (but there are other restrictions about plastic and metal jerry cans), and in France 60 litres.

If you send a letter to your local Petrol Enforcement Agency you can store up to 275 litres

 

[British Red]

Do supermarkets have them to keep fridges and freezers running?

Not many in the UK although some in Spain definitely did. They would need to be very large for the average supermarket & a large fuel supply would also be needed. In my time working for major retailers the only places with that sort of provision I knew of were data centres

 

[Chris]

Not many in the UK although some in Spain definitely did. They would need to be very large for the average supermarket & a large fuel supply would also be needed. In my time working for major retailers the only places with that sort of provision I knew of were data centres

Sounds like I assumed wrong, then!

Assuming that hospitals probably also have some form of backup for essential life support systems?

 

[British Red]

Sounds like I assumed wrong, then!

Assuming that hospitals probably also have some form of backup for essential life support systems?

Definitely although as you say, only for essential services

 

[Chris]

Definitely although as you say, only for essential services

It's amazing to think how much more resilient battery and solar technology could make us.

 

[Pattree]

Interlink Express was one of my clients some time ago.
They had duplicate server banks in Worcestershire and Sussex. They also had a huge truck mounted generator that could plug into either and keep the system going.

They were very proactive in preparedness and planned a theoretical exercise whereby should plane crash onto their main hub then the operation would be moved into Worcester’s Football ground and car park.

 

[GreyCat]

It's amazing to think how much more resilient battery and solar technology could make us.

On an individual level yes.

Unfortunately the use of a lot of solar isn't necessarily great for a national power grid, it would appear that the lack of grid inertia was a key factor in the grid outage in Spain/Portugal. Grid elements are set to trip if frequency changes beyond set parameters, however where you have a bunch of prime movers supplying power (whether coal, gas or nuclear powered) the physical inertia helps stabilise the grid. Don't get that with solar/wind, quite the opposite- wind is constantly variable and solar needs inverters which can cause their own issues...... builds instability into the system.....

Once there's instability, it doesn't take much for a cascade effect where a local outage causes wider grid problems. Usually at that point the grid operator will switch off parts of the grid to avoid the problem spreading- if they can act quickly enough. As they did with the Hornsea failure in UK a few years back. Switching out that part of the grid saved the rest.

GC

 

[Chris]

On an individual level yes.

Unfortunately the use of a lot of solar isn't necessarily great for a national power grid, it would appear that the lack of grid inertia was a key factor in the grid outage in Spain/Portugal. Grid elements are set to trip if frequency changes beyond set parameters, however where you have a bunch of prime movers supplying power (whether coal, gas or nuclear powered) the physical inertia helps stabilise the grid. Don't get that with solar/wind, quite the opposite- wind is constantly variable and solar needs inverters which can cause their own issues...... builds instability into the system.....

Once there's instability, it doesn't take much for a cascade effect where a local outage causes wider grid problems. Usually at that point the grid operator will switch off parts of the grid to avoid the problem spreading- if they can act quickly enough. As they did with the Hornsea failure in UK a few years back. Switching out that part of the grid saved the rest.

GC

I do mean more for individual businesses/households.

Having solar panels on the roof and batteries to both supplement day-to-day energy usage and to provide a backup in event of a grid outage seems like it’d be a more efficient way of adding resilience, given petrol/diesel has a short shelf life and doesn’t arrive for free via the sky most days.

Unless I’ve misunderstood your comment of course.

 

[MrEd]

Sounds like I assumed wrong, then!

Assuming that hospitals probably also have some form of backup for essential life support systems?

Yes deffo, my hospital has 3 huge generators and can run the entire site and all requirements completely different independently of the grid.
Life critical systems have ups backups to cover the 30 second lag between grid and generator supply - ICU, theatres etc.
everything else just blips off and on again.
Its monthly at 9am on a Wednesday!

My hospital has also just won a bid for 1.5mil of solar panels aswell, which will provide about 5% of our energy needs apparently

 

[MrEd]

Definitely although as you say, only for essential services

Not true at all hospitals, mine has provision for every service and ups for life critical

 

[TeeDee]

If you send a letter to your local Petrol Enforcement Agency you can store up to 275 litres

What would THEY deem to be a sound reason? Or is it just a question of notifying them. ?

 

[lou1661]

What would THEY deem to be a sound reason? Or is it just a question of notifying them. ?

“Seems” fairly straight forward.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm

 

[Falstaff]

I did see an article not long ago that somewhere in the midlands (I think) was testing a form of commercial sized inertia flywheel for use with solar power to overcome this problem. Claimed a big power saving and allegedly sponsored and funded by Mr Milliband.

 

[demented dale]

Yes deffo, my hospital has 3 huge generators and can run the entire site and all requirements completely different independently of the grid.
Life critical systems have ups backups to cover the 30 second lag between grid and generator supply - ICU, theatres etc.
everything else just blips off and on again.
Its monthly at 9am on a Wednesday!

My hospital has also just won a bid for 1.5mil of solar panels aswell, which will provide about 5% of our energy needs apparently

They had better hurry up and fit those solar panels before the Government blocks the Sun out. dd x

 

[GreyCat]

I do mean more for individual businesses/households.

Having solar panels on the roof and batteries to both supplement day-to-day energy usage and to provide a backup in event of a grid outage seems like it’d be a more efficient way of adding resilience, given petrol/diesel has a short shelf life and doesn’t arrive for free via the sky most days.

Unless I’ve misunderstood your comment of course.

You understood correctly, and I agree. Which is why I have an Ecoflow power station with batteries (6kWh), charges from mains but also I have the solar panels I can plug into it.

GC

 

[GreyCat]

..... and of course portanle solar that can be taken inside (locked away) at night and hidden during use is safer from being nicked than a gennie which makes a noise. In a big outage, anyone with a portable gennie in a location with any ne'er-do-wells in it won't be keeping the gennie for long. The typical scrote will just nick what they require to maintain their lifestyle, with mandces if necessary.

Discretion is important for any personal resilience.

GC