Foxes after baby owls.

[silva]

Out having a bit of a mooch around midnight a few nights ago. There have been some baby owls on the branches for the last week or so, little furry ones that can't hoot properly making a lot of racket !
Anyway there was a fox lurking around in the field below the tree. He either saw or winded me as it was quite bright and soon cleared off but I could still see glimpses of him with the red filter on about 75 yds away in the hedge, so he was hanging about, probably a young one.
When I went up the hedgeline the owlets weren't up in the tree, instead they were in an old hedgerow hazel only about two to three feet off the ground, alongside a bank. I chivvied them up into the higher branches and had a wee at the bottom of the tree, only hope they wise up before they become fox food.

 

[greensurfingbear]

poor fox lost his supper then

 

[British Red]

Don't forget - foxes climb trees

 

[blacktimberwolf]

"Nature red in tooth & claw"............Mind you, if the parent owls are about, that fox is in for a steep learning curve, he'll be lucky if he returns to his den with both eyes intact.

 

[JonathanD]

I've seen a fox take a full grown Tawny a couple of years ago. It took the owl - and me, completely by surprise.

 

[shaggystu]

poor fox lost his supper then

[video=youtube;DQR4-cl9ODc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQR4-cl9ODc[/video]

WARNING!!! there's swearing in the video

 

[Dougster]

As the fox numbers are considerably safer than the owl numbers, it's a simple case of maths to shoot the red fella surely?

 

[greensurfingbear]

As the fox numbers are considerably safer than the owl numbers, it's a simple case of maths to shoot the red fella surely?

.

Where does draw the line in interfering with nature??....that's hours of campfire debate / moral minefield right there. I think that's a discussion for else where.

NB all said in cheerful banter!!!!

 

[Adze]

As the fox numbers are considerably safer than the owl numbers, it's a simple case of maths to shoot the red fella surely?

Unless higher numbers of foxes than owls is normal, then I'd agree with you. Trouble is, what is 'normal' in the UK any more? After all, we killed all the wolves and bears and look where that got us.

There are some seriously endangered species in the UK... not many of them cute and fluffy. Austropotamobius pallipes is a good example, the UK being one of it's last bastions (owls, otters, seals, water voles and ospreys being somewhat more widespread and numerous - they share a conservation status with the likes of the Siberian Tiger and the Giant Panda) yet they get little airtime by comparison and largely for the reasons in Stu's post.

 

[British Red]

After all, we killed all the wolves and bears and look where that got us.

Well, it got us safe and fed for a start.

You can't have major carnivorous predators on an unarmed, over populated island that cannot feed itself. Now for me, I'd work on reducing the population and arming it too. But thats not acceptable to the politically correct.

Red

 

[Adze]

Well, it got us safe and fed for a start.
Red

You're absolutely right, we did it for human reasons, not for conservation (other than of our own hides).

The real import of my post was how little people appreciate some of the genuinely threatened species we're responsible for in the UK, while caring so deeply (in terms of their pockets if nothing else) about species which might be locally threatened but which, Worldwide at least, are really quite abundant. Your avatar's namesake is a very good example as it happens

 

[British Red]

Ahh now the "British / European Red" is a different species than the US red - and genuinely threatened.

Trouble is, how many people will pay more for their food becuase wolves take lambs? Not just the wealthy few - but the poor? How many will think its worth it when their pet, or even children, are threatened or killed?

Most people don't actually want a serious predator on this island - heck they can't cope with adders and have hysterical red top rag articles about killer foxes!

 

[Harvestman]

Ahh now the "British / European Red" is a different species than the US red - and genuinely threatened.

Trouble is, how many people will pay more for their food becuase wolves take lambs? Not just the wealthy few - but the poor? How many will think its worth it when their pet, or even children, are threatened or killed?

Most people don't actually want a serious predator on this island - heck they can't cope with adders and have hysterical red top rag articles about killer foxes!

Never mind the panic that ensues if they see a wasp...

 

[Adze]

Ahh now the "British / European Red" is a different species than the US red - and genuinely threatened.

I was talking about Sciurus vulgaris which definitely isn't threatened - except locally in places in the UK.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/20025/0

Trouble is, how many people will pay more for their food becuase wolves take lambs? Not just the wealthy few - but the poor? How many will think its worth it when their pet, or even children, are threatened or killed?

Not even close... the real trouble was the explosion in the popularity of crayfish tail sandwiches in the late 70's to the early 80's. Are you actually reading my posts Red or just making them up as you go along? I only ask as you appear to be under the misapprehension that I'm advocating reintroduction of apex carnivorous predators whereas, in actual fact, I'm bemoaning the decline of the white claw crayfish... (http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/2430/0) there's a whopping difference there me old mucka

 

[British Red]

I only ask as you appear to be under the misapprehension that I'm advocating reintroduction of apex carnivorous predators whereas, in actual fact, I'm bemoaning the decline of the white claw crayfish... (http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/2430/0) there's a whopping difference there me old mucka

I was responding to your post that said

[After all, we killed all the wolves and bears and look where that got us.

Where do you think it got us?

It simply isn't a one sided discussion sadly - but that post sounded like it was. You can have cheap food, enabling poorer people to feed their kids meat, or you can have apex carniorous predators. I'm unsure which you prefer?

 

[Adze]

I was responding to your post that said {snip} Where do you think it got us?

My thinking at the time was that it got us into the current cycle of red and roe deer management which currently has to cull thousands of animals per year, costs many many thousands (probably millions) of pounds and has the aminal (sic) rights loonies up in arms occasionally. However this is more or less besides the point because my point in the original post was that...

It simply isn't a one sided discussion sadly - but that post sounded like it was.

...the throw away comment which you have misconstrued might, I agree, have sounded one sided, but the salient point which you have yet to address or respond to in any reply, that being the plight of the humble white clawed cray, is totally unambiguous and very demonstrative of the blinkered fashion in which conservation in the UK is undertaken.

I'm unsure which you prefer?

I shall repeat...

...you appear to be under the misapprehension that I'm advocating reintroduction of apex carnivorous predators whereas, in actual fact, I'm bemoaning the decline of the white claw crayfish... (http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/2430/0)

Cheers!

 

[British Red]

Bemoan away old chap.

All I know on the subject is what I have read - and that is that well meaning amateurs trapping red signals make the problem worse (in that the larger ones are canibals and via the introduction of disease)

So I also am saddened by the decline - but clearly amateur trapping is worse than leaving things alone - so I am intrigued to hear a proposed solution

Red

 

[Adze]

Bemoan away old chap.

All I know on the subject is what I have read - and that is that well meaning amateurs trapping red signals make the problem worse (in that the larger ones are canibals and via the introduction of disease)

So I also am saddened by the decline - but clearly amateur trapping is worse than leaving things alone - so I am intrigued to hear a proposed solution

Red

Trapping, amateur or otherwise is a moot point regarding increased or decreased numbers - however, since the fungus which kills the native white clawed crays will have been already devastating (to the point of local extinction in the main) to their local population it won't make a jot of difference to their numbers locally.

What WILL make a difference nationally and Globally is preventing the spread of signals and other carriers of the fungus by following a few simple steps - details here: https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/nonnativespecies/downloadDocument.cfm?id=683

Sadly there is likely to never be a solution to the existing signal cray problem in the UK - hopefully their spread can be limited to their current range and the remainder left to the native species. The real trouble is it requires continual education and reinforcement of the risks in transporting potentially viable specimens in damp equipment - something the funding for just doesn't exist unless the target species is either cute/fluffy/carnivorous/birdlife

 

[British Red]

Ahh I agree with you there on the emotion

The logic of "sport angling" would cause an outcry if applied to mammals - lets say...of...breeding foxes, hooking them out of their earths with a steel hook through the face - and then putting them back in order to do it again. There would be a huge outcry. But fish are slimy...so no problem!

It certainly shows the hypocrisy of a hunting ban...or a hare coursing ban come to that

Red

 

[silva]

I've seen a fox take a full grown Tawny a couple of years ago. It took the owl - and me, completely by surprise.

That was a rare sight few people will have seen - how did it come together ? Have watched them mousing and seen them stalking and pouncing at birds and darting in trying to grab a rabbit, but never actually catch anything.