Follow the sheeple or head for the hills?

[scoops_uk]

Most local Council's have some sort of Emergency Planning Team, they usually call on voluntary groups like St. Johns Ambulance, WI, etc. Get in touch with your local team, let them know you're interested in helping out and find out which voluntary groups you might like to join.

I use GIS (Geographical Information Systems) a lot at work, so in the disaster movie context I'd be the guy in the command tent who tells the hero that the killer bees are heading west and 300 houses are going to be in big trouble if someone doesn't divert them onto that patch of daisies over there, before showing him a snazzy fake 3D graphic of the killer bees swerving to the daisies with lots of scrolling numbers at the side of the screen.

Everyone loves a snazzy 3D fake graphics in a disaster movie

Scoops

 

[Womble]

Most local Council's have some sort of Emergency Planning Team, they usually call on voluntary groups like St. Johns Ambulance, WI, etc. Get in touch with your local team, let them know you're interested in helping out and find out which voluntary groups you might like to join.

I use GIS (Geographical Information Systems) a lot at work, so in the disaster movie context I'd be the guy in the command tent who tells the hero that the killer bees are heading west and 300 houses are going to be in big trouble if someone doesn't divert them onto that patch of daisies over there, before showing him a snazzy fake 3D graphic of the killer bees swerving to the daisies with lots of scrolling numbers at the side of the screen.

Everyone loves a snazzy 3D fake graphics in a disaster movie

Scoops

Excellent - That's me with a job (in GIS) as well then!

 

[Eric_Methven]

Most local Council's have some sort of Emergency Planning Team, they usually call on voluntary groups like St. Johns Ambulance, WI, etc. Get in touch with your local team, let them know you're interested in helping out and find out which voluntary groups you might like to join.

I use GIS (Geographical Information Systems) a lot at work, so in the disaster movie context I'd be the guy in the command tent who tells the hero that the killer bees are heading west and 300 houses are going to be in big trouble if someone doesn't divert them onto that patch of daisies over there, before showing him a snazzy fake 3D graphic of the killer bees swerving to the daisies with lots of scrolling numbers at the side of the screen.

Everyone loves a snazzy 3D fake graphics in a disaster movie

Scoops

Hmmm.... I might consider volunteering if they give me a big hat to wear. Do I get to kiss the heroine?

Seriously, excellent info mate. Thanks for that.

Eric

 

[combatblade1]

You know something this thread is starting to sound like one of those disaster movies, like "The Day after Tomorrow". All we need is a title....Hmmm?
I know , 'Night of the sheeple!'

 

[Eric_Methven]

You know something this thread is starting to sound like one of those disaster movies, like "The Day after Tomorrow". All we need is a title....Hmmm?
I know , 'Night of the sheeple!'

"Night of the Sheeple - a flocking disaster!"

 

[Mirius]

I bit my tongue on this thread when I first saw it and then ignored it until I could overcome the annoyance - sort of count to ten with bells on. I must admit the either or nature of the poll and the implication that if I didn't have a pack by the door then I was a sheeple was insulting to say the least. However, perhaps I needed to be insulted.

I'm not a survivalist by inclination, not in the things are getting worse sort of way, because to be honest I don't believe that they are. Looking back into the past does seem to make things look better, but a closer look pretty well dispels that view. The blitz is the example most often held up, and it is true that people did have a community spirit, but as BR points out so well, there was a less well officially documented side too. Look at the work of Octavia Hill in the slums of London a hundred odd years ago, when drugs and street gangs made the place a no go area. People are people and I don't think things are getting worse. Situations change, though so some things get worse, but others better.

Any way, rambling aside, clearly I don't fit Eric's conception of what a bushcrafter is, but that doesn't worry me too much (now I've taken the meds and put the homicidal thoughts aside ). But seriously, I've not been planning well enough, and my situation means that I would never be heading for the hills, but still my plans aren't well enough defined and I need to improve on that.

 

[Eric_Methven]

Maybe I was a bit OTT when I implied real bushcrafters should have a bag by the door. Of course they shouldn't, unless they want to. Knowledge and experience through continual practice is far more important than kit, and the best prepared bushcrafters are those who know what to do in a given situation. That's one of the great reasons to come along to meets or the bushmoot. The freely given tutorials, both official and unofficial help everyone to build up those skills and experience. There are not many places where unconditional giving of one's knowledge and experiences are as prevalent as through BCUK.

To everyone on here, :You_Rock_

Eric

 

[soa_uk]

I'd be one of the folk doing the evacuating (I'm a coastie).
If it floods in Cromarty enough to flood my house... Inverness is under water. Wick is under water...

 

[British Red]

I am very moved by this thread and I want to thank both Eric and all the other contributors. Not so much for the content, but for the civilised nature of the discussion. I genuinely believe that this thread is the best sign I have see to date f the way this forum has calmed down and become more tolerant of each others views in the last year or so. I have seen threads like this degenerate in the past with people denigrating "survival" or "survivalists". I think they are silly words personally - survivalist has overtones of a gun toting bunker dweller and survival has military "do it because you want to get out of a situation" overtones. Neither I suspect is even close to the truth.

In the spirit of the sharing that has gone before I'm happy to lay out my view point.

I don't hate the modern world - some things mankind has achieved are amazing. I remember when particularly unwell and someone told me the "woods would provide a remedy" I asked them if they would mind "whittling me an MRI scanner". Modern medicine is incredible whatever difficulties we have with the medium of delivery. The Internet is incredible - a world of knowledge, opinion and art at your fingertips.

BUT

I distrust modern politicians - of all political persuasions. I have an intense distrust of the modern "nanny knows best, the state will provide" culture. I dislike the modern "consumer culture" - Delivered Pizza, rooms that are a "space", houses that aren't homes but a rung on a "property ladder", shopping as a leisure activity, personal worth being defined by personal wealth. All these things I intensely dislike.

I really fear the way society is moving - its become one large, complicated, delicate, oil fuelled corrupt machine. One person simply does not have the skills and almost lacks the permission to live a simple, self supporting life. A life that makes a contribution to society but is not dependant on it for every little thing.

We currently live in a simple cottage on a rural farm. We grow our own veg, get water from a bore hole, dress game to eat, use a water filter, cut wood for heat etc. But we are going shortly to move to a more remote location where we can be as self supporting as possible - no mains water, gas, electricity or sewage. Some land to grow things on and raise our own animals. Heating by solid fuel, electricity form solar and wind. we've been variously called "The Good Life", "Survivalists", "Ray Mears wannabe" "River Cottage wannabe" etc. I don't see us as any of those things - we have held high level jobs in corporate life and see just how empty and pointless that is (to us). A simple life will be equally as pointless but, we hope, a little more fulfilling and satisfying.

Does it cross my mind that being able to carry on living comfortably if oil peaks, electricity prices sky rocket etc.? Yup. But I hope those things don't happen as they would impact all the great things the modern world offers. I hope we just get to live a quiet and simple life in the way we want. I hope those who prefer a MacDonalds washed down by a blue alcopop can have the life they want too

Red

 

[spamel]

I'm interested in how you came to live the lifestyle you do Red. i find the constant rat race a bit depressing to say the least. i think that during my time in the forces I was sheltered from just how much money you have to spend to live. Tax, council tax, this is before you pay your rent/mortgage, fuel bills and then you have a small amount of money left over to actually feed your family and to clothe them. It is shocking.

Once you are fully established self sufficiency wise, will you be able to stop paying council tax? If you aren't using any of their facilities, surely you shouldn't pay.

 

[Mirius]

I think that as Red said, it's not possible to live a completely self-sufficient life, at least not without going back to a stone age level. You need to be part of a community, and so I don't see that anyone can avoid council tax, though it would be nice if you could get a rebate for not using all of their services all of the time.

I'm constantly tempted by the sort of life that Red is aiming for. Unfortunately it would be my wife's worst nightmare!

 

[scoops_uk]

I don't like council tax but, study your bill next time you get one. Most of it goes to the Police, Fire Brigade and Social Services. The Council get about £10 a month from me for emptying the bin, sweeping the streets, parks, leisure services, planning control, dog wardens etc etc.

Once you are fully established self sufficiency wise, will you be able to stop paying council tax? If you aren't using any of their facilities, surely you shouldn't pay.

 

[Eric_Methven]

I honestly think that people who are self sufficient should be able to pay their council tax in cabbages.

Eric

 

[Eric_Methven]

One person simply does not have the skills and almost lacks the permission to live a simple, self supporting life. A life that makes a contribution to society but is not dependant on it for every little thing.

Red

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

 

[British Red]

Spam,

As Mirius says, complete self sufficiency is almost impossible these days. I always liked the example of a table. Can you make one? From scratch? Well yes. How? Well I take a saw and cut down a tree? Where did the saw come from...etc.


We aim to be "self sustaining" rather than sel sufficient. In effect to minimise rather than eliminate our need to purchase commdities and utilities. Since we would continue to benefit from some services (police, NHS etc.) it would be wholly wrong to seek to avoid paying for them. But If I extract and treat my own water and manage my own sewage, I don't need to pay water rates. Likewise electricity, heat etc. Our aim is to be able to work on a contract basis for no more than 3 months of the year - hopefully every two years - to cover those money needs like some level of council tax. Managed wisely such an arrangement will not attract much income tax but as I say we would not seek to avoid contributing to society whilst using its products - that would be wrong in our eyes. Currently we play at it and I still work for an employer although BB has our business set up and has been working for that business for several years and proved it viability. When we find the right ultimate property then I stop providing the safety net and we go into it together full time. It will be nothing grand - a cottage and some acreage in Scotland. Home brewed wine and home made bread, a few chickens and a lot of vegetables and a couple of pigs etc. If the place is paid off (which ultimately is the trick to it), then all you really need to do is eat and clothe yourself if its set up right. Thats the aim with a small cash injection occasionally when we need things we can't grow or make. We aren't there yet by a long way but we hope to secure the right property this year with luck

Red

 

[British Red]

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

Its a great quote that - I agree with the concept of being a "Renaissance man", but some measure of trade and specialisation pre-dates the bronze age - show me the man who can mine iron, produce steel, forge an axe and the next day produce an antibiotic . I agree with the theory entirely though - "be able to do all thinks competently and a few things well" is another good one - I suspect you are nearer to that than I am Eric

Red

 

[Brendan]

I distrust modern politicians - of all political persuasions. I have an intense distrust of the modern "nanny knows best, the state will provide" culture. I dislike the modern "consumer culture" - Delivered Pizza, rooms that are a "space", houses that aren't homes but a rung on a "property ladder", shopping as a leisure activity, personal worth being defined by personal wealth. All these things I intensely dislike.

I really fear the way society is moving - its become one large, complicated, delicate, oil fuelled corrupt machine. One person simply does not have the skills and almost lacks the permission to live a simple, self supporting life. A life that makes a contribution to society but is not dependant on it for every little thing.

Red

Hear hear Red, I totally agree, just look at society, how can it have a long term future, I think we need to take a few steps back to actually go forward.

 

[spamel]

Cheers Red, a well thought out plan I think. I suppose you and Scoops are right, I'm new to being back in UK and never really knew exactly what Council Tax was for, other than making people miserable 'cos they can't afford it! I suppose it is a neccessity if you want the fire brigade to put your house out after trying friction fire lighting in the front room, or an ambulance to take you to hospital after you've had a fight with an axe!

 

[scoops_uk]

Red,

I wish you every success mate! It's my dream too and it's good to see someone closer to it.

Scoops

 

[Mirius]

Its a great quote that - I agree with the concept of being a "Renaissance man", but some measure of trade and specialisation pre-dates the bronze age - show me the man who can mine iron, produce steel, forge an axe and the next day produce an antibiotic . I agree with the theory entirely though - "be able to do all thinks competently and a few things well" is another good one - I suspect you are nearer to that than I am Eric

Red

And both of you a huge deal closer to it than me! Mind you I now realise that even most stone age communities had a division of labour - the stone age version of cegga was too valuable to be allowed to spend his time doing anything other knapping flint.

And to be clear, I am grateful to Eric for the thread as it's given me something to think about.