First Responders, what do you think?

[pibbleb]

I have been considering getting involved with the First Responder scheme linked to the Ambulance service. http://www.horshamresponders.org.uk/ However, I'm not sure that I can reconcile a debate that is going on in my head!

There are two arguments that I can see. The first is, the Ambulance Service should be able to respond to all the calls promptly with their full equipment and that the trusts and government should fund them properly! By setting up a volunteer scheme they are likely to become a free replacement ambulance service draining the monies the Service are entitled to.

The second is, clearly the funding issue is never likely to change and avoiding getting involved isn't going to make a difference. If people don't volunteer there and get involved it could have a serious effect on peoples lives.

I'd be interested on your thoughts about the scheme and it's likely usefulness. Lets be nice to each other though?

Pib

 

[weekend_warrior]

I have have various thoughts about this over the last year or two... My current thinking is that in the abscence of proper funding for real ambulance crews and the ever increasing cutbacks, FRs are about the only people who could make a real difference to the quality of someones day... and all the days that their family have following. Go for it.

 

[BorderReiver]

FR units are being used as "clock stoppers" by the Ambulance Service in order to meet "Response Times".

When the FR arrives at the scene,the call is deemed answered,even if the patient declines treatment by the FR,who must explain to the patient that an ambulance is on the way and that they can choose to wait.

OTOH,in the case of an arrest,every second counts,and the FR's defib can make all the difference.

It won't do any harm to give it a go,if you don't,someone else will.

 

[John Fenna]

Just got home from an incident where the guy I was doing 1st aid on arrested and with the help of the FR and his kit I was able to get him from flatline to giving output before the ambulance got to us. Last heard of 3hrs after arest critical in ITU.

In rural areas Frs are a god send.

Last time I did CPR the guy was long gone before the ambulance got to me.... no FRs then!
John

 

[John Fenna]

Sorry a bit incoherant as I am coming down from the adrenalin... FR arrived well before the ambulance almost at the same time as I lost the guys pulse and respiration completely.
John
I am now going to have a stiff drink!

 

[pibbleb]

John thanks for sharing. Hope you are ok.

If I'm honest I've pretty much decided to apply. My wife slipped in to a diabetic coma about 4 years ago now and it took the Ambulance 35 minutes to arrive.

I appreciate that this wasn't an arrest but the response time has kind of stuck with me.

I think my view is now that if it helps a patient great if it's a comfort just being there for both the patient and family then all the better.

Well done John.

Pib

 

[Martyn]

A tough one. I tend to feel that by propping up a failing system, that we are actually supporting that system with inadequate services. I've always felt that failing systems should be allowed to fail, in order that the issue is adressed properly. The "system" - that includes hospitals - relies heavily on good will. The good will of volunteers to prop it up and the good will of doctors and nurses who carry far more on their shoulders than either they should or they are paid to do, because if they didnt, someone would suffer. It irritates the hell out of me that the government capitalises on and actually budgets for that good will when deciding what resources are necessary. The problem is, staff woirk under these conditions for so loong, then vote with their feet and either leave the country or leave the profession. The whole system is falling appart andf has been for a couple of decades now. It's barely hanging together and only does because there are good people prepared to make personal sacrifices to help others. Problem is, while they may help the individual, they may ultimately be doing our society a dis-service by propping up a lousy system, which should really be allowed to fail.

Personally, I think FR's are a great idea if the service is covering an area that has never had good ambulance cover, or is very rural and with a sparse population. Funding will never be from a bottomless pit, no matter what system is in operation, so there will always be some rationing of services to thinly poipulated areas. But if the FR starts to cover areas that demographically indicate there should be good cover, then you bump into ethical issues.

Easily said, if it was one of my relatives lying there, I would probably think differently.

 

[John Fenna]

John thanks for sharing. Hope you are ok.

If I'm honest I've pretty much decided to apply. My wife slipped in to a diabetic coma about 4 years ago now and it took the Ambulance 35 minutes to arrive.

I appreciate that this wasn't an arrest but the response time has kind of stuck with me.

I think my view is now that if it helps a patient great if it's a comfort just being there for both the patient and family then all the better.

Well done John.

Pib

35 mins - you (as they say) were LUCKY!
Although last nights responce was much faster I have had a wait of 60mins - and this was while I was rolling around in agony with renal colic trying to expel a kidney stone for me...not fun!
As to last night - the guy is still hanging on in there this morning and although my back and wrists are sore I am fine - I think!
It is kind of strange doing this sort of thing for a friend.
John

 

[weekend_warrior]

a bit incoherant as I am coming down from the adrenalin... FR arrived well before the ambulance almost at the same time as I lost the guys pulse and respiration completely.
John
I am now going to have a stiff drink!

Top job John, have a double! :You_Rock_

 

[Lurch]

Just got home from an incident where the guy I was doing 1st aid on arrested and with the help of the FR and his kit I was able to get him from flatline to giving output before the ambulance got to us.

Good work fella.
Where's the rep button when you need it?

 

[John Fenna]

I prefer whisky to rep...if there is a choice...
The guy is still in ICU but prognosis is poor.
John

 

[mike68]

I am a paramedic with 18 yrs experience.
First responders are used to stop the clock.....Yes.
The government set us targets to meet . When you call an ambulance we have 8 mins to get to you from the time control answers the call. ( If it is a life threatening call ie. red).
If it is not a life threatening call we have longer.
The clock stops when a person equiped with a defib (AED) and oxygen arrive on scene, be it a crewed ambulance, ambulance single responder, or first responder.
First responders save lives........YES.
If someone has a cardiac arrest and nobody commences CPR they die...end of sports.
If someone has a cardiac arrest and is in VF (ventricular fribulation) and a first responder arrives commences cpr and is able to deliver shocks from their AED that person stand a far greater chance of survival.
Yes the ambulance service is underfunded and mostly understaffed and we are continually asked to do more and more with the same or fewer resources( I am in danger of getting on the soapbox here) but first responders do make a difference.
Dont forget you will only respond to certain red calls within a small radius of your home, so it may well be that you will know the people you are helping.


GO FOR IT even if you only ever do one "proper" job you will gain an enourmous amount of satisfaction.
Yours Mike68

John, you have my upmost admiration I get paid to do this sort of thing. Even if you have the training it takes guts to actually do it for real, well done! you should be proud. I hope your friend makes it.

 

[pibbleb]

Thanks for the encouragement. I posted my appliocation so now just awaiting a response. I don't believe the next intake training is until September so there is plenty of time.

In addition there are some interviews and tests to get out of the way first.

Pib

 

[John Fenna]

Go for it! Society needs more people like you, willing to volonteer for work for the good of others.
You may never become a millionaire but you are richer in Spirit than you will ever know.

Unfortunately my friend died early Saturday morning but without the FR he would never even have survived to get to hospital and ICU where he had a chance, be it ever so small, of recovery.
John

 

[EdS]

Join.

I had a late friend who organised one of the local ones.

FRs are not ment to replace Ambulances - just get there quicker. In Otley the ambulance station is just out of town and takes about 5 minutes to get to a seen. FRs take less than 2 minutes as they are already in the town. When you are dealing with a major heart attack it make the difference. To be honest after 5 minutes there is really little chance of a good out come, but 2 minutes you'll have a chance.

 

[davef]

My wife and I used to be FR in our area but we stopped recently due to conflicting loyalties.

As a FR you have to stick to the approved guidelines... even if further training gives you other options. In our area FRs are called out to arrests but also to conditions that may deteriorate into an arrest - the problems come when as advanced firstaiders/Nurse/Specialist Dentist we can diagnose and manage the patient beyond the FR guidelines, hopefully preventing decline but we're hobbled to only being able to give very limited care.

We found it too difficult to not use the skills we have to help people and so withdrew from the programme... although we're still involved on the training side, creating scenarios for others

But in general the FR network is essential in rural areas and needs lots of support.

Dave

 

[mike68]

John,
I am truly s.o.r.r.y that your friend died.
The fact that you had the courage to take the action you did gave him a fighting chance and also gave those who were close to him a chance to say goodbye.
Please accept a virtual single malt.
Yours Mike68.

 

[pibbleb]

Jon I'm:sad6: to hear about your friend.

Apeace of mind a chance to say goodbye says it all really.

Regards

Paul

 

[John Fenna]

Thanks everyone.
Virtual malt duely swallowed in a toast to the dead already and those that FRs may yet save.
A health to all those who decide to become FRs, those who train them and those who support them.
A murrian upon those who deny funding to the NHS, ambulance services etc and make it necessary for volonteers in the first place. This kind of work should be HIGHLY paid!
John

 

[pibbleb]

Just an update.

I got a letter from the Ambulance service last week telling me that my application will not be processed just yet as they are going through some changes at the moment, which will effect the scheme. They are therefore, holding on to the applications until September.

Pib