Filtering and treating flood waters?

[Ogri the trog]

Very true Spamel,
Being "Off water grid" has taught me a lot about being miserly with water. We get occasional runs of surface water into our well, which turns the whole thing green/brown yuck colour - so we do exactly as you said - rotate some good supply through the 5 litre water bottles - then when the supply goes bad, we have a reserve to last us a few days.
When a whole area gets flooded out, everyone is in the same position, so personal hygene can slip a little without seeming out of place (a wipe down with a wet cloth instead of daily showers/baths etc) but if you need to eke out a personal supply of water, ablutions can be done in all manner of places to preserve the little amount that "you" have. Its also worth noting that water drunk straight, is better for the body than teas & coffee for example - as your kidneys attempt to flush out some "flavourings" which uses more of the bodies fluids - leaving you needing more water!

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[gregorach]

I must admit, I've been wondering just how much of that bottled / bowser water has been wasted flushing toilets...

 

[greeneggcat]

Probably a lot of drinking water has been wasted. Dont forget it not just having the right "kit" to survive but also the right mentality. I live in Tewkesbury town and some of the sights i have seen over the past few days beggar belief. A large ammount of folks have done nothing but get Brahms and Liszt! Some folk have been sending every member of thier household to get 3-4 x there daily supply of bottled water. As for filtering flood water i wouldnt bother. The stuff floating around here is foul. Some of it is so polluted with petrol, oil and diesal that standing within 10 metres of it burns your eyes. Sure collect water from the gutters if you can, but my personal preferenc is to rig up acouple of tarps to collect rain.

As i said at the beginning it aint just directly linked to water. E.G i am alot better off then many i know because of the type of clothing i have ( which fits in nicely with the latest bushcraft mag). I own alot of merino base layers which have natural anti stink powers so i can save on the amount of washing i need water for, also stuff like ronhill leggings, smartwool socks etc etc. You get the picture less need to waste what water there is.!

 

[Tengu]

You have my sympathy as you can look after yourself.....

A lot of people I have talked to about preparedness seem to be very apathetic.

 

[greeneggcat]

Cheers. The amount of people who have taken the mick out of me over the years with quotes like " who do you think you are, ray mears? etc etc i have lost count of. But there are a few who have listened to my mad rambling about...it a thin line between civilisation and chaos....what would you do without water power, shops etc..... And fortunately our little support network has worked well with every one at least having the capability to cook and boil water. It also proves that people have to start taking personal responsability for them selves. Its no good moaning about the authorities not giving you enough info or stuff like that when they are literally fighting to save lives and keep 100,000s of people with power and water. One minute people are moaning it is a nanny state, next minute they want the gov to wipe thier arses for them.

Any way rant over, i am off to do some salvage work in my kayak

 

[TheMagicalBadger]

Given how cheaply you can rig up rain water harvesting/storage to feed the toilets it should be illegal NOT to put this in every new house built.

I've suggested it to work as we have the top 2 floors of a building in cheltenham with a flat roof and when it rains there are just 1000s of Ls going down the drains and then the office has to close this week since there is no mains water for the toilets

(is it cheating to have used the water 'generated' by the portable aircons for a flush or two today? )

I look forward to the day I magically have enough money to leave rental for a house I own and can modify in such ways

Anyway, here in sunny Gloucester the bath still has a good 5 flushes worth of (mostly) rainwater in it, and the back garden is covered in buckets, bins, plastic storage crates and a few tarps...

Am I the only one hoping for more rain? :umbrella:

 

[BlackPacker]

No way I would ever drink floodwater in a developed area. As you have all said, too many chemicals. We've all seen the rainbow sheen of oil in fresh puddles, imagine when cars get submerged and get a good free engine cleaning... or refineries blow out, or sewage lifts, too much gross stuff.

That said, I have drank out of horse troughs, dairy field run off and a few green pools in dry creeks that made my eyes water. And I've NEVER gotten sick off any of them.

I treat the hell out of it. First off, a fair amount of iodine dropped directly into my 3 gallon water sack (I use it with para cord to retrieve water off bridges) After letting it sit 30-60 minutes, I filter it with an MSR mini works ceramic filter. This filtration is a double check, and also gets rid of the iodine taste (Which after some military experiences makes me want to vomit). It's labor intensive, but I have drank from seriously damaged water with it. But biological baddies are alot bigger than random chemical baddies.

Our well went in over the last two days. 300 feet, 25-35 GPM. We'll be submitting the water for testing soon, and I might try to find out about having the company do a test for me on the quality of chemically polluted water through a porcalin filter. Will also require me to buy a new replacement filter...

If I were mobile in a flood, i would find high spots to collect rain water from and avoid the gutters at all cost. Don't drink the rainbow water!

 

[Porcupine]

they must have asked the same questions in new orleans, personaly i think rainwater is your best bet.

on a sidenote, wouldnt it be possible to make a waterdistilation aparatus with a few bits n bobs? might have to add a bit of salt though afterwards.

 

[demographic]

When Carlisle flooded the big timber preservative tanks at the local sawmill were also swamped, I don't care how you treat that cos I still don't want to drink it.

Rainwater from water butts and gutters on the other hand...

 

[tommy the cat]

Do you know this is an interesting thread but I must first say my thoughts are with you guys in the affected flood areas. I did start thinking the other day what water I would have in an emegency and I have two large water butts that I wondered if could be suitably treated.
Got to say that sometimes I read about certain guys on here having 'bug out packs' with a little smile on my face but hell it makes you think how quickly and easily things can go wrong.
I look forward to Reds post too Dave

 

[Tourist]

Reverse Osmosis - RO.

I have been reading up on window cleaning kit recently, for a possible career change, and RO kit is all the rage with the professionals nowadays. To get to the point, I read that the RO kit can be used to change sea water into drinking water and produces something like 98% pure water..........ok, ok clever dicky comment about its the 2% that'll kill you......but you can then boil the water or pass it through a de-ionisation unit - DI.

I know RO and DI are not bushy, you cannot stick them in a bergen but they will produce 100% pure water when used in combination. So for any folks living in the ulu here is a solution costing around £300.00.

 

[jojo]

Reverse Osmosis - RO.

I have been reading up on window cleaning kit recently, for a possible career change, and RO kit is all the rage with the professionals nowadays. To get to the point, I read that the RO kit can be used to change sea water into drinking water and produces something like 98% pure water..........ok, ok clever dicky comment about its the 2% that'll kill you......but you can then boil the water or pass it through a de-ionisation unit - DI.

I know RO and DI are not bushy, you cannot stick them in a bergen but they will produce 100% pure water when used in combination. So for any folks living in the ulu here is a solution costing around £300.00.

2 questions:

what is the link between window cleaning and R O
What happen if you don't live near the sea for salt water to reverse osmosize

Dumb, I know.....

 

[Tourist]

Ok, in reverse order:

1. You can RO any water(filtering out the lumpy bits first): swamp; sewage; foul; even tap water (cos it ain't that clean).

2. Window cleaning:

When you clean with soapy/detergent based water you leave behind a soap scum, even when you squeege off. Even if you wash your windows with 'clean' tap water you leave behind traces of all the impurities in the water.....calcium, chlorine, irons. minerals etc. This residue allows a surface for dirt, dust etc to cling to making the windows dirty again.

RO'ed and DI'ed water is 100% free of particulate impurities. Therefore, there is no residue left on the glass and the windows stay cleaner longer, honest. You do not need any detergents, soaps or other additives only the RO'ed and DI'ed water. You use a reach and wash sytem (pole with a brush that has water pumped to it) and a 600ltr water storage tank and RO/DI system in a van.

There ya go.

 

[jojo]

Aaaaaaah.. Knew I was being dumb... And the RO would remove all the foul stuff, inc chemicals that found their way in the water?

As to having super, long lasting, squicky clean windows... hummmmm. Can't be good for business, though, if you don't need to do them so often, less business for the window cleaner, surely? He does not give up, does he?

 

[Tourist]

Yup, persistant, I'll give you that )).

Domestic windows are cleaned around 10 times a year to keep the ladies happy.

Commercial windows, offices and the like, are done as often as you can get them to pay for it.

I have yet to meet a poor self employed window cleaner. I want to kick off in the biz before year end........just as all the fair weather summertime cleaners are getting back on the dole in time for xmas. It is the sort of biz that honestly rewards hard work and effort....I've done lots of research. The biggie is you are your own boss and you are outdoors.

More window talk. There is self cleaning glass that supposedly needs no cleaning as it contains a chemical in the glass that eliminates dirt, nah. It works to a level but still needs doing at least 4 times a year. Self cleaning glass is beloved of architects for office developments particularly in the USA.

And yes, RO removes chemicals. Check out Wikipedia for RO and DI, the references are pretty good and well written........for a change.

 

[leon-1]

Guys, firstly you need to get out more. Secondly for anyone who can stand to read through it, there are studies that have been carried out in conjunction with IIRC The Bangladeshi university of Engineering or Science.

You may ask what has any of this to do with filtering flood water, the answer is this, nearly all methods of filtration fail when heavy metals have been diluted into the water sources. India and Bangladesh have had a lot of problems with the local / indigenous peoples having enough drinking water, this is generally due to large industry dumping pollutants into the water courses, where in many cases they have then got onto the main water table and polluted the main water sources for drinking water.

Arsenic and mercury were amongst some of the pollutants to be found in the local drinking water in degrees that could be classed as frightening.

The studies that were carried out were quite encompassing and some of the solutions that they came up with were very interesting to read, there were a number of large PDF documents that were downloadable as well. I know that I have made mention of it before in one thread or another, if I can find a link I'll post it.

It would also be worth looking into what people like the world health organisation do when in disaster areas in the third world, in many cases they get people from the armed forces who are trained to deal with water treatment to sort things out.

I know what the armed forces courses are like as I have done them at Ash Vale, as I said have a good scout about the net, you'll find some quite interesting if boffinish type stuff out there.

 

[TheGreenMan]

Yup, persistant, I'll give you that )).

Domestic windows are cleaned around 10 times a year to keep the ladies happy.

Commercial windows, offices and the like, are done as often as you can get them to pay for it.

I have yet to meet a poor self employed window cleaner. I want to kick off in the biz before year end........just as all the fair weather summertime cleaners are getting back on the dole in time for xmas. It is the sort of biz that honestly rewards hard work and effort....I've done lots of research. The biggie is you are your own boss and you are outdoors.

More window talk. There is self cleaning glass that supposedly needs no cleaning as it contains a chemical in the glass that eliminates dirt, nah. It works to a level but still needs doing at least 4 times a year. Self cleaning glass is beloved of architects for office developments particularly in the USA.

And yes, RO removes chemicals. Check out Wikipedia for RO and DI, the references are pretty good and well written........for a change.

Quality over quantity works for me every time! Thanks, Tourist

Guys, firstly you need to get out more. Secondly for anyone who can stand to read through it, there are studies that have been carried out in conjunction with IIRC The Bangladeshi university of Engineering or Science.

You may ask what has any of this to do with filtering flood water, the answer is this, nearly all methods of filtration fail when heavy metals have been diluted into the water sources. India and Bangladesh have had a lot of problems with the local / indigenous peoples having enough drinking water, this is generally due to large industry dumping pollutants into the water courses, where in many cases they have then got onto the main water table and polluted the main water sources for drinking water.

Arsenic and mercury were amongst some of the pollutants to be found in the local drinking water in degrees that could be classed as frightening.

The studies that were carried out were quite encompassing and some of the solutions that they came up with were very interesting to read, there were a number of large PDF documents that were downloadable as well. I know that I have made mention of it before in one thread or another, if I can find a link I'll post it.

It would also be worth looking into what people like the world health organisation do when in disaster areas in the third world, in many cases they get people from the armed forces who are trained to deal with water treatment to sort things out.

I know what the armed forces courses are like as I have done them at Ash Vale, as I said have a good scout about the net, you'll find some quite interesting if boffinish type stuff out there.

Leon, you're being way too sensible and informative But, thanks anyway

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[Tourist]

Heavy metals, lovely.

Good point though Leon, got me looking and I found a heavy metal filter for £55, which if you use RO and/or DI you could put it in line with to make 1000% sure you got them all.

http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php?cPath=35

RO units themselves go for as low as £50 'ish

http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php/cPath/22

Point of interest, sea/ocean going yachts and larger motor cruisers sometimes have RO units fitted rather than having huge fresh water tanks.

I have nowt to do with the company, there are other companies I just used this one as an indicator.

 

[RobertRogers]

The problem will be the chemical pollutants. Some sort of method to collect condensations, such as distilling or making a Solar Water Still might be your best option. However, there are some chemicals that can evaporate and condense along with the water.

 

[RobertRogers]

BTW I once was backpacking in a nearly waterless area in the White Mountains of NH on the Appalachian Trail. At a designated campsite there was one small spring with a pool at its head containing a few cubic feet of water. I went to fill my water bottle and what did I find? Someone had washed out their dinner plates full of left over macaroni and cheese in the only water supply for miles around!

In an urban situation imagine this stupidity multiplied by the thousands of fools that will be all around you.

In short, Do Not Trust the Water.