Felleskap!!

[Gary]

Stick or full tang is courses for horses.

The difference is the handle material and quality of work - a stick tang shoved into a predrilled handle (mora classic) that is then used with a baton is liable to split. A full tang with a badly fitted handle rivetted on using poor materials and used with a baton is liable to have one of the scales fall off.

If such happens a stick tang can have the handle replaced simple by forcing it into a prepared piece of wood giving you a replacement handle while a full tang can be repaired by wrapping the tang with rag or some such - one problem here is the broken scale cannot be replaced by you in the field and will probably need machining to repair once back in civilisation too.

As was pointed out if working in cold climates a stick tang is better but having said that in the colder parts of the world you'd probably be wearing gloves anyway.

As I say courses for horses - choice of a knive should be made using experience, knowledge of its intended uses and materials as well as its looks.

 

[Stuart]

Sargey i may have the wrong end of the stick here but are you suggesting that a stick tang is no good for battoning? :-?

 

[sargey]

Sargey i may have the wrong end of the stick here but are you suggesting that a stick tang is no good for battoning?

nope, not at all.

even your bog basic mora will withstand a fair amount of batoning on the spine or back of the blade. what i was referring to is batoning on the pommel end of the handle. like you would if it was a chisel. if your stick tang was peened over an end cap it might be ok, but if you had a knife where the wood completely enclosed the tang i think the handle could get damaged. whilst you'd still have a blade and tang, i don't think it'd be a great idea.

quite a long time ago a few of us were debating the usefulness of mors kochanski's survival knife toughness test. you baton a knife into a tree and stand on it. the general consensus was that this idea was bunk. i thought it was harsher than it sounded, so i went out to try it. the only knife i had that was up to this test was a chris reeves sable IV, one of his hollow handle one piece range. i chickened out with all the other knives. except a frosts deck knife. which ended up looking like this:

you can see how the handle has been stuffed down the blade. but it took some very serious whacking to get there.

there's loads of info on mora and batonning over at jimbo's place

http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/baton.html
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/mora2.html

cheers, and

 

[Stuart]

the Lapps and finns use stick tang knives for this type of batoning and the lapps have over come this problem by having a metal cap over the pummel (all finnish and lapp knives have tangs which pass right though the handle)

if you look at the lapp puukko in the reveiw section you can see this

(or if someone explains how you add apicture to a post i'll put one up)

the frosts deck knife is not a fare representation of a stick tang
the deck knife only has a 2/3 tang!

if you try mors kochanski's test with a well made finnish stick tang knife it will cope with it no problem at all

 

[Stew]

"Can I post Images?
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[clcuckow]

back to the original thread I have a Felleskap (F5) blade, its my first crack at making a knife and B&Q and Axminster are getting a lot of trade at the moment. I am using Imbuya and I have made black/brass mosaic pins.

Like Martyn said I don't think it will knife so its probably going to cost me a packet as one of the things on my list is a double garage so I have somewhere to put the drill press from B&Q last night ;-)

I will still be using my Kellam Wildfinn Puukko so Stuart should still be happy ;-)

 

[sargey]

if you try mors kochanski's test with a well made finnish stick tang knife it will cope with it no problem at all

stuart, lend me your knife and i'll give it a go!

have you got a copy of mors' book? i still reckon this test is bunk! what he actually says is hammer a knife 4cm into a tree at ninety degrees to the grain, then stand on the handle. even with the reeves knife i had it in line with the grain. the next problem is hammering. i was using a big old beech baton, with full on double handed swings. then the next question is how much wood do you need to support your weight.

i do not believe that my trusty isakkii jarvenpaa (?sp) puukko would survive this test. seeing how much the reeves knife flexed while supporting my 85 kilos with the blade vertical was frightening enough.

this test is simply a very silly idea, IMO. i have no doubt that a good quality stick tang knife is plenty robust enough for any practical bushcraft demands. i like the idea of having a test to prove a knife is tough enough, i just don't think this is it.

cheers, and.

 

[Stuart]

I was just about to take a Lapp puukko out to the woods and film it being hammered into a tree and being jumped on

If this test is bunk though what would you suggest?

what do other people think of the test?

could somone supply the whole discription of the test?

the only reason I argue in favour of a stick tang is that many people see them as inferior (this may be because they have not used a high quality well made stick tang)

well their not, anything you can do with a well made full tang you can do with a well made stick tang (and by well made stick tang i mean one that passes right though the handle and is burnt in, not just slotted in)

the benifits of a full tang is no bare metal or pins/pin holes and a much lighter knife (the result of this light weight is people thinking they are not strong)

the blacksmiths in finnland have never made a full tang knife, i just wondered why you asked a scandinavian blacksmith to make you a full tang knife when his skill is making stick tang

which would have been perfectly suitable for the task

Just as many in europe laugh and roll their eyes at the size of the cars the americans drive, the scandinavians roll their eyes at us brits and americans with our heavy over the top full tang knives

it was the scandinavians that taught us that we did not need big 6inch bowie style blades and enlightened us to the flat grind yet we do not follow their example with the tang

Ok that is just about the longest post i have ever written

I'll shut up and stop ranting now

:sword: :aargh4:


:uu:

 

[Dave Barker]

the Lapps and finns use stick tang knives for this type of batoning and the lapps have over come this problem by having a metal cap over the pummel (all finnish and lapp knives have tangs which pass right though the handle)

if you look at the lapp puukko in the reveiw section you can see this

(or if someone explains how you add apicture to a post i'll put one up)

the frosts deck knife is not a fare representation of a stick tang
the deck knife only has a 2/3 tang!

if you try mors kochanski's test with a well made finnish stick tang knife it will cope with it no problem at all

Picture you posted shows a tang that is incredibly wide! Most Scandinavian knives have a tang that is conically shaped and forms a point at the end ( or at least this is how I make them)

This actually means that the tang is fixed both physically and chemically into the shaft and I would doubt very much that the wood would split that easily.

Of course the taste of the pudding ……..

 

[Martyn]

As far as this knife goes, it's just taste, it's what people wanted, so it's what Trond made. There's nothing wrong with either design, but the laps and fins also make knives that way because to some extent, they are locked into tradition. People buy them, because they want a traditional Scandi blade. If they started making Bowies, then they'd loose all their trade, cos there are a gazillion and 1 bowie makers in the rest of the world. At the end of the day, it's commercial enterprise and traditional art which drives em. Scandi blades aren't inherantly better than anything else. You pick the tool for the job you want. The American market is different to the UK. For bushcraft techniques, they are good blades, not necessarily the best though. There are a huge variety of blades on the market that will do quite well.

It wasnt the scandi's who taught us the benefit of their blade shape, it was Ray Mears & his preference for it for the tasks he was doing. But it's not a must have design, it's just one of many options.

But guys please (Martyn dons moderator hat), can you start a split tang v full tang argument thread if ya want to thrash it out further, we've drifted significantly from the original thread topic here..

 

[silas]

have you got a copy of mors' book? i still reckon this test is bunk! what he actually says is hammer a knife 4cm into a tree at ninety degrees to the grain, then stand on the handle.[/quote]


Dosent the wight of the person standing on the handle make any difference????

Come on...


Silas

 

[sargey]

But guys please (Martyn dons moderator hat), can you start a split tang v full tang argument thread if ya want to thrash it out further, we've drifted significantly from the original thread topic here..

ok i'll start a new one, taking the liberty to copy and paste a few comments..

cheers, and.

 

[Stuart]

I apologise the stick tang/full tang debate was my fault, sorry for going way off topic


I'll go and sit in the corner :-(


do we have an emoticon for sitting in the corner? :0:

 

[clcuckow]

Here we go. Next stop I will have to think about the sheath(another first I have never done any real leatherwork)

Comments and suggestions welcome.

 

[Jon]

Nice work, very nice work. :-D :-D :-D

What sort of wood is that ?

It seems to have gone quiet here on the Felleskap front recently. Is that a good sign or a bad sign ?

How is everyone else is getting on ? Come on guys, talk to us

Jon.

 

[TAHAWK]

Nice looking knife!

 

[Croc]

Hello, I’ve just joined this forum. I guess I am kind of responsible for the start of this Felleskap project. It was I who originally asked Trond if he could make me a woodlorish type blade, which he kindly did (mine is trond 01). I made a mistake with my first curly birch slabs so have now used walnut from a 200 year old gun stock. I have made a start on cutting out the slabs. I did have a few hold-ups waiting for a friend to get around to slicing the wood down the middle on his circular saw and the fact that I worked all over Christmas and new year did not give me any time to carry on with my knife.

I have seen the one that Chris has done and it has convinced me all the more that my decision to go with a darker wood was the right choice. I’m looking forward to carrying on with mine.

Regards,

Paul Rowley (Ophidian from BB)

 

[Colin KC]

Haven't had a chance to even look at mine (Trond sent mine un-heat treated, as I wanted to get a temperline in there, use elephant ivory for the handle to make a presentation version (which will still be useable, of course) to be auctioned for charity)

It'll be a couple of weeks, but HT should be soon

 

[Croc]

Working on mine right now. Just been down to B&Q again. I am making some mosaic pins from brass tube. If it is of any help 3 pieces of 2x0.3 tube will fit inside a length of 6X0.5 tube.

The large tube is about £4 and the smaller £1.49. I picked up the very last piece which was bent to hell so I told the checkout girl that it was the last piece and that I could use it but was not happy about it being bent.

They knock £1 off it so only costme 50p, got home easily straitened it out by hand + eye. I only need short lengths so I was laughing.

Regards,

Paul

 

[clcuckow]

Jon the wood is Imbuya (cut from a bowl blank from axminster). There are some more pics on BB http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1570&page=3&pp=20
I am half expecting Trond to ask for a Quick-time VR 360 next But you cannot blame him as I think it is the first time he has done a full rather than a stick tang, and then most of the people who bought one have never made a knife before and his name is on the blade.

Paul "O' Farther of the Felleskap" thanks for persuading Trond to do this blade. I have really enjoyed making my first knife and I am sure it will not be my last or what else will I do with my new drill press, 1 ton vice, bench grinder/belt sander, files etc. I think I will just have to get some sheet metal from somewhere and try at stock removal and then try and find someone to do the HT. But I really should really try to make the sheath first as it is literally razor sharp and not a lot of use it I cannot carry it!

On the sheath front any advice? I was going to try and make a neck sheath with a fire steel holder but the knife is 7 oz and so my be to heavy for a paracord loop.