Elmax or RWL 34
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Elmax is a better steel. Its tougher and more stain resistant ( not that RWL isn't tough or have good stain resistance). RWL is 1st generation powder steel, Elmax is 3rd gen.
i noticed the other day that you could get the Enzo Trapper in Elmax from Brisa knives in kit form for about £85 ,I think, and as for the RWL 34 I've heard it mentioned on a couple of videos on YouTube .
Andrew
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RWL34 is an excellent knife steel when heat treated correctly as is Elmax, i doubt in use you'd notice the difference between the two side by side
My blade smith neighbour swears by Elmax. He make blades from almost any steel...Carbon, AEBL, RWL, ELMAX etc. RWL get very good grades from him, as well...either way, you'll probably end up with a really good knife
Yes and no
You can only buy it direct from Bohler Uddeholm UK iirc. They have a £125 minimum order, and a fixed £32 delivery charge, So not quite as straight forward as that. While you may be able to get the steel slightly cheaper in price per metre, the delivery charge changes that.... plus, Heat treating Elmax is more expensive than HT'ing RWL-34
You can only buy it direct from Bohler Uddeholm UK iirc. They have a £125 minimum order, and a fixed £32 delivery charge, So not quite as straight forward as that. While you may be able to get the steel slightly cheaper in price per metre, the delivery charge changes that.... plus, Heat treating Elmax is more expensive than HT'ing RWL-34
You asked for pros and cons but it looks like what you've got so far is comparisons between the two, and I wondered if you were thinking of other steels as well?
Assuming they're properly made (in particular, properly heat treated, but other parts of the manufacturing process are important too) then when you used them as Mark.177 said you probably wouldn't notice any difference between blades made of these two steels.
Are you thinking of making blades from stock steel? You can heat treat some blade materials at home with relative ease. With these steels, heat treatment is a lot trickier.
They're stainless, which for me is a big win over carbon steels, and they're more expensive (or a lot more expensive) than something like 1095 or good old O1 which is the next best thing to indestructible if it's kept clean and dry.
I'm a great fan of stainless blades; I personally love the small S30V blade on one of my Leatherman multi-tools which gets used for almost anything, but apart from firewood prep (when I generally use an O1 fixed blade) I probably use 12c27 blades more than anything else. I've never have any trouble with those. 12c27 is 'old school' and perhaps more forgiving if making your own blades from stock.
There are many other steels which would probably perform just as well as those you've asked about. Some of them are more or less identical, for example CPM154 is RWL34 by another name, and 154CM/ATS-34 have practically the same elemental composition but are 'assembled' in a different way. 154CM and ATS-34 have both had chequered manufacturing histories so beware of older blades in those materials. Others like N690/N690Co/440F or VG10 wouldn't be out of place in the discussion and are well regarded.
Elmax can usefully be hardened quite a bit more than some other steels and then it might be harder to sharpen, but to me everything seems to respond well to stropping.
As Dave said, what you want from the steels is important. I tend to think of most stainless steels (3V being a notable exception) as better suited to smaller, finer blades but that's just a personal opinion. The Enzo trapper would fall into that category. Apart from 3V I wouldn't consider using them for something like a big chopper.
Like anything Elmax might not be as tough, if it's taken to the higher hardnesses that it's capable of. I personally would steer clear of very high hardness finishes, but being a Saturday's Child I tend to make my blades work hard for a living.
I just bought two metres of Elmax from Uddeholm in Oldbury, West Mids. They let me collect it from their stock warehouse. I also just got the price list through from stockholder who sells RWL 34. Can't recall the name of the business but I think it's something like Barwoods. Latest prices for RWL 34 were quite a bit more expensive than the Elmax, something like about 20 quid a metre more, for thinner stock. Also, the business that sells RWL 34 is in administration. I'd want to pay the money and collect the steel at the same time if it was me.
I've never had RWL 34 hardened, but my local heat treatment place will do 22 kg of Elmax for 82 quid.
Cheers,
Bob
did you mean Barmond international? they supply my rwl34 prices last time i ordered were for a meter of 38mm x 3.5mm about £80
when you say the business is in administration do you mean Barmond?...
Mark,
Yes, Barmond is the company that I got the price list from. They are owned by a parent called Kiveton Park Steel. The account name shown on the price list from Barmond (if customers want to pay by bank transfer) is shown as "Kiveton Park Steel In Administration". They are still trading under the supervision of the Administrators. However, if it was my money I wouldn't want to knowingly become one of their creditors.
A metre of RWL in 38 x 3.5 is £74.50 if you pay by PayPal or £71.50 if by bank transfer.
Cheers,
Bob
I order from Barmond (kiveton park steel) regularly. I have no fears over anything with them. I've used them for years and met Richard Airy a couple of times. Got some from them last week, No problems at all.
Just sent Richard and email, so will see what he says on the matter.
Just sent Richard and email, so will see what he says on the matter.
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have spoken to Richard a few times over the phone, had some rwl34 blades returned from heat treat from him today and had no idea? was going to ring him soon with another order...
If you have a look on the home page of their website there's a statement about it.
The business is continuing to trade and I'm sure they'll continue to give excellent service. I've had bits from them in the past and appreciate that they're willing to deal with little guys such as myself. However, overall control of the business is in the hands of accountants, who sometimes see things differently to other people.
Cheers.
Bob
I've had an email back from him. Have no fears over placing an order. I've been asked not to disclose some of the info he gave, so i won't, but rest assured, its pretty much business as usual.
The very basics of heat treatment, I think I understand. But the video from MCQ bushcraft about his new knife, introduced to me a new term in relation to heat treat of a knife "Cryo treat". With only those words in my mind I have visions of quenching a red hot blade in liquid nitrogen. Which probably isn't right.
Can anyone elaborate on what is involved in heat treating a steal like Elmax or RWL 34 ?
Cheers
J
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