EEC banning herbal medicines
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Hiya
Why, I like to make my own choices. You may not like them so don't buy them, I don't buy them ( I do make some) but it should be my choice.
I like you have some faith in drugs but I am aware that they killed over a million people in ten years in the USA.
If we are discussing Herbalism generally...
Why, I like to make my own choices. You may not like them so don't buy them, I don't buy them ( I do make some) but it should be my choice.
There are plenty who will disagree and they should have the choice
Hmmm, ok white willow bark was utilised/copied by science as Aspirin, but white willow bark does not cause stomach bleeding like aspirin often does.
I like you have some faith in drugs but I am aware that they killed over a million people in ten years in the USA.
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I think thats a bold statement indeed. Whilst not ALL herbal remedies have the required scientific evidence to substantiate claims, what about the likes of:
Aloe Vera - Proven to help heal burns etc
Echinacea - A popular herb used primarily to reduce the symptoms and duration of the common cold and flu and to alleviate the symptoms associated with them, such as sore throat (pharyngitis), cough, and fever.
Feverfew - Used to treat migraines and heaches. It works by reducing the body's production of prostaglandins.
These are all scientifically proven to work. We're not talking bubbling potions and pills, but this isnt just mumbo jumbo. I understand Rik_uk3 you are talking about the "majority" of the time, but i could rattle off a list of proven remedies.
Overall, i think regulation could be a good thing. However, are people going to suffer in the long run? Possibly. That being said, if people are taking pills and potions and they dont know whats in them, well then be it on their head. A little homework goes a long way....
Hiya
I think this thread turned into two conversations, one of which seems to anti herbalism and anti choice. The other being stop "people selling mislabelled, poison-contaminated remedies" which of course makes sense.
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Great, so my GP will prescribe them as drug of choice as they work so well and based on clinical evidence ? In August I was on Morphine, any herbal remedy that will do the job as well? Aspirin, Paracetamol, Ibuprofen, simple proven over the counter medication that is of consistent quality, consistent dosage and clinically proven to work. Antibiotics work, how many people do they save a year? millions I suspect.
My three year old grandson has a fever, so cool him down and herbal tosh or cool him down and paracetamol and ibuprofen? Guess which I rely on because they work. I don't want to see anyone suffer because of some deluded idea that a potion or lotion knocked up in the kitchen or workshop will do the job, most often, they won't.
If your ill take what you want, your choice but please don't expect all of us to have faith in herbalism, it just don't work as well.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments Richard, I suspect that the herbal preparation that works as well as morphine is....morphine. All the opiates are preapred from papaver somniferum (the opium poppy). Likewise aspirin is based upon salicylic acid - derived from the salix tree (willow).
Many modern medicines are based upon plants, plant derivatives or synthetics emulating plant material.
I use herbs with proven, cliniclly trialled effects. That is my choice. I also agree that to sell them, any claims on their efiicacy must be clinically verified, the contents must be safe and tested.
That is all that the EU is demanding. No inflated claims, no poisons.
It is wrong to say herbs are more effective than they are. It is equally eroneous to claim that herbs cannot have a beneficial effect.
Red
Many modern medicines are based upon plants, plant derivatives or synthetics emulating plant material.
I use herbs with proven, cliniclly trialled effects. That is my choice. I also agree that to sell them, any claims on their efiicacy must be clinically verified, the contents must be safe and tested.
That is all that the EU is demanding. No inflated claims, no poisons.
It is wrong to say herbs are more effective than they are. It is equally eroneous to claim that herbs cannot have a beneficial effect.
Red
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Rik_uk3, all im saying is we shouldnt be ruling these things out...people should be able to have the choice. Im with you in that if there are symptoms that can be treated with more modern medicines then great, use them, I certainly do!....However, we shouldnt rule out the alternatives. I dare say not all herbal remedies can be recreated synthetically in a lab and not all ailments can be treated with synthetic medicines.
You ever chewed on willow to get rid of tooth ache? Works a damn sight faster than taking a pain killer, be it paracetamol or brufen, in a pill form. Or tried clove oil applied directly to the area effected? Thats not "herbal tosh", coz it works. This isnt a personal dig mate, im just saying there are alternatives, and we shouldnt rule them out. The morphine you were on is a naturally occuring substance, just needs extracting (although admittedly you couldve been taking synthetic stuff...works pretty much the same).
But to echo what you said, herbals cant compete with a lot of pharma-produced drugs. Hell, if I had some serious condition and was in pain I would take whatever it took to alleviate and cure the problem.
I think this is about choice, and having our eyes wide open to that choice.
You ever chewed on willow to get rid of tooth ache? Works a damn sight faster than taking a pain killer, be it paracetamol or brufen, in a pill form. Or tried clove oil applied directly to the area effected? Thats not "herbal tosh", coz it works. This isnt a personal dig mate, im just saying there are alternatives, and we shouldnt rule them out. The morphine you were on is a naturally occuring substance, just needs extracting (although admittedly you couldve been taking synthetic stuff...works pretty much the same).
But to echo what you said, herbals cant compete with a lot of pharma-produced drugs. Hell, if I had some serious condition and was in pain I would take whatever it took to alleviate and cure the problem.
I think this is about choice, and having our eyes wide open to that choice.
It's really easy to get those as live plants, and they don't even need any preparation - just sayin...
I agree with British Red and Locum on this 
Thing is though, you need to know the herbs *and* yourself or the person you are helping for them to work to their full advantage.
Many of the potions of the pharmacy are, "one size fits most folks okay", while herbal medicine, good herbal medicine, should be tailored to the individual, at that point in their life.
But, we've gotten used to the pharmacy and it's pills and are trying to use herbal ones in the same fashion.
As far as I can see, all these new rules will do is to ensure that the same standards of preparation, and measurements and labelling of ingredients, is adhered to, between the two systems.
Grow your own
On that note, anyone want some aloe vera? mine's gone nuclear again and is rapidly approaching triffid scale on the windowsill A tiny wee rooted cutting will grow quite happily in some moist compost and thrive. I grow mine on kitchen and bathroom windowsills which don't get much Sun, and they still outgrow the pots on a regular basis. Good for sunburn, itchy skin, dry skin, insect bites, eczema and even chickenpox Safe for children, the elderly, and around pets too.
Feverfew grows like a weed once you have it established. Pretty white daisy like flowers shed innumerable seeds. I can even find enough leaves to use in Winter in my cold wet garden. Seedlings available in a couple of months if the weather stays true to the season
cheers,
Toddy
Thing is though, you need to know the herbs *and* yourself or the person you are helping for them to work to their full advantage.
Many of the potions of the pharmacy are, "one size fits most folks okay", while herbal medicine, good herbal medicine, should be tailored to the individual, at that point in their life.
But, we've gotten used to the pharmacy and it's pills and are trying to use herbal ones in the same fashion.
As far as I can see, all these new rules will do is to ensure that the same standards of preparation, and measurements and labelling of ingredients, is adhered to, between the two systems.
Grow your own
On that note, anyone want some aloe vera? mine's gone nuclear again and is rapidly approaching triffid scale on the windowsill
A tiny wee rooted cutting will grow quite happily in some moist compost and thrive. I grow mine on kitchen and bathroom windowsills which don't get much Sun, and they still outgrow the pots on a regular basis. Good for sunburn, itchy skin, dry skin, insect bites, eczema and even chickenpox Safe for children, the elderly, and around pets too.Feverfew grows like a weed once you have it established. Pretty white daisy like flowers shed innumerable seeds. I can even find enough leaves to use in Winter in my cold wet garden. Seedlings available in a couple of months if the weather stays true to the season
cheers,
Toddy
Bloody feverfew - its as bad as californian poppy for self seeding. Balm does it to me too.....and fennel
I'd love an aloe vera if you can hang onto it till I build the greenhouses in April?
Gome pignut seeds to try if you want sawps? Or valerian seed....or....
I'd love an aloe vera if you can hang onto it till I build the greenhouses in April?
Gome pignut seeds to try if you want sawps? Or valerian seed....or....
Choice is the key issue.
Many herbs are helpful in the symptoms of the common cold. Should we send those with the common cold to flood the NHS? if you read Pubmed.com, a website for medical research, you will find all manner of things, including herbs that are helpful for prostate inflamation. There is a mass of scientific reseach that supports the traditional use of herbal medicine.
Having said this, if its in a tin etc, it should contain what is stated on the label, just like other things should.
But blanket bans are sensless and infringe choice. As for science, in the 80's it was discoved that the mouldy grain feed to camels by camel herders contained naturally occuring tetracycline. They gave the grain as a two thousand year old remedy for gut infections. Since the 1950's the herders were told that they were ignorant and should use antibiotis in a capsule, which were ironically not as effective due to delivery method.
One mans tradition is another mans undiscoved science.
Things that have been known and proved- the world is flat
Medically proven therapy of bleeding people made them healthier when ill.
Mercury is a longevity drug.
You lose most of your body heat through your head.
A military study many years ago tested the loss of temperature in soldiers when exposed to very cold temperatures. They found rapid heat loss in the head and so the idea that we lose heat through our heads was born. But what they didnt tell you was that the soldiers were fully clothed except for their heads. This obviously skews the statistics considerably. The fact is, completely naked, you lose approximately 10% of your body heat through the head the other 90% is lost via the other parts of your body.
the list is endless and a science gets more subtle, ever changing.
Many herbs are helpful in the symptoms of the common cold. Should we send those with the common cold to flood the NHS? if you read Pubmed.com, a website for medical research, you will find all manner of things, including herbs that are helpful for prostate inflamation. There is a mass of scientific reseach that supports the traditional use of herbal medicine.
Having said this, if its in a tin etc, it should contain what is stated on the label, just like other things should.
But blanket bans are sensless and infringe choice. As for science, in the 80's it was discoved that the mouldy grain feed to camels by camel herders contained naturally occuring tetracycline. They gave the grain as a two thousand year old remedy for gut infections. Since the 1950's the herders were told that they were ignorant and should use antibiotis in a capsule, which were ironically not as effective due to delivery method.
One mans tradition is another mans undiscoved science.
Things that have been known and proved- the world is flat
Medically proven therapy of bleeding people made them healthier when ill.
Mercury is a longevity drug.
You lose most of your body heat through your head.
A military study many years ago tested the loss of temperature in soldiers when exposed to very cold temperatures. They found rapid heat loss in the head and so the idea that we lose heat through our heads was born. But what they didnt tell you was that the soldiers were fully clothed except for their heads. This obviously skews the statistics considerably. The fact is, completely naked, you lose approximately 10% of your body heat through the head the other 90% is lost via the other parts of your body.
the list is endless and a science gets more subtle, ever changing.
There is no blanket ban. If you prepare something as a medicine, and sell it as a medicine, then it is treated as a medicine.
If you sell ginseng as ginseng and it contains ginseng, no problem.
If you buy valerian, st Johns Wort or feverfew and that is all they contain, again, no problem.
Once you calim medical properties, you need to back up your claim (anyone think that fraudulent claims are okay?)
If you make a product, you have to list the ingredients (same as all ingested products - anyone think arsenic is okay in a tablet?)
No-one is stopping people growing or using herbs. They are stopping unproven and farudulent claims and dangerous ingedients.
I am not anti herb. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone local is welcome to come and use my herbarium
Herbarium by British Red, on Flickr
Responsible people do not make inflated claims or use dangerous ingredients. Thats what this legislation is about.
Red
If you sell ginseng as ginseng and it contains ginseng, no problem.
If you buy valerian, st Johns Wort or feverfew and that is all they contain, again, no problem.
Once you calim medical properties, you need to back up your claim (anyone think that fraudulent claims are okay?)
If you make a product, you have to list the ingredients (same as all ingested products - anyone think arsenic is okay in a tablet?)
No-one is stopping people growing or using herbs. They are stopping unproven and farudulent claims and dangerous ingedients.
I am not anti herb. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone local is welcome to come and use my herbarium
Herbarium by British Red, on Flickr
Responsible people do not make inflated claims or use dangerous ingredients. Thats what this legislation is about.
Red
Bloody feverfew - its as bad as californian poppy for self seeding. Balm does it to me too.....and fennel
I'd love an aloe vera if you can hang onto it till I build the greenhouses in April?
Gome pignut seeds to try if you want sawps? Or valerian seed....or....
No bother, just let me know when you want a couple of bits. I've got both varieties so there'll be some of each available for you
I'd love some Valerian seed, and instructions for setting them properly. I have no joy with it and have to resort to the roots a friend grows on a wild plot.
I have masses of weld (reseda luteola) growing if you would like to add dye plants to your herbs ? I've got potted seedlings in the greenhouse (pigeons devour them if they can get to them outside
) and Typha minima that needs thinned out in the pond. It has been producing the most lovely pollen rich heads Excellent golden colour in breads and rich in protein.Small enough to thrive in a big bucket too
I meant to offer meadowsweet flourish to you before. I have loads from this last years gathering; any use ?
cheers,
Toddy
Meadowsweet I'm good - thanks.
Why don't I see if the Valerian takes well here (last years were transplants) and send you some seedlings ready for planting out?
Could I offer you a forty foot container of horse radish? Or Himilayan Balsam? The balsam here is insane - 500 yard drifts of purple flowers!
Why don't I see if the Valerian takes well here (last years were transplants) and send you some seedlings ready for planting out?
Could I offer you a forty foot container of horse radish? Or Himilayan Balsam? The balsam here is insane - 500 yard drifts of purple flowers!
A wee bit of growable horseradish would be appreciated.....will the slugs devour it though? I keep vulnerable plants in pots with traps, but that leaves them a bit vulnerable to hard frosts.
The Himalayan Balsam is best caught and roasted and eaten
or keep some hens, they'll guzzle every seed they can get to.Seriously swipe a kids fishing net through the heads to catch loads of seed and just toast and munch.
Otherwise the damned stuff is a blight regardless of how pretty it is.
cheers,
Toddy
Himalayan balsam seeds taste lovely, similar to walnut...
http://www.eatweeds.co.uk/himalayan-balsam-seed-curry-recipe
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Balsam I rip it out on sight - it is evil stuff. Had 500+ per acre on my land - rip and burn is the only way (before it sets seed)
I'll get you all the horse radish you want Mary - but please pot grow. Its much much worse than mint.
I rip it out on sight - it is evil stuff. Had 500+ per acre on my land - rip and burn is the only way (before it sets seed)I'll get you all the horse radish you want Mary - but please pot grow. Its much much worse than mint.