EDC no more?

[mrcharly]

yes and no, i agree entirely that anything at all used in an offensive manner would be classed as an offensive weapon but there are also offensive weapons as defined by law such as; balisongs, knuckledusters, sword canes, extendable batons etc. here's a link to a full list. unless the offensive weapon that you own is classed as an antique then i believe that you have no right to even own such an item never mind carry one in public.

stuart

You are confusing 'banned' weapons with 'offensive' weapons. Banned means banned, no exceptions.

'Offensive' depends on actual or intended use. Anything can be an offensive weapon, if used as such. ISTR that the Yorkshire Ripper used a screwdriver, for example.

 

[shaggystu]

You are confusing 'banned' weapons with 'offensive' weapons. Banned means banned, no exceptions.

'Offensive' depends on actual or intended use. Anything can be an offensive weapon, if used as such. ISTR that the Yorkshire Ripper used a screwdriver, for example.

erm, no i'm not. i thought i was fairly clear when i said that "anything at all used in an offensive manner would be classed as an offensive weapon but there are also weapons as defined by law". i'm struggling to find any reference within law that refers to "banned" weapons, whereas i've managed to find, with no difficulty at all, quite a few articles online referring to the officially recognised list of "offensive" weapons, such as the link that i provided. in one sense offensive does apply to intended or actual use, in another sense "offensive weapon" would apply to the list of items that are, within law, described specifically as offensive weapons. just to address the other part of your post i.e. "banned means banned, no exeptions" well i'm afraid that you're wrong there, all of the items that have been described as offensive weapons within law carry the same exception; if it's an antique it doesn't count.

BTW *** does ISTR mean?

stuart

 

[mrcharly]

Fair enough, you are right - the wording does say 'offensive weapons'.

ISTR = I seem to recall.

You are also right about the 'antique' bit - but my point about use or intent still applies - in the UK, you cannot carry something for the purpose of self-defense.

 

[nigeltm]

To be an offensive weapon one of three conditions must be met:

1 - design
The item is DESIGNED to be a weapon. Eg. Fairburn Sykes commando knife or a sword

2 - modification
The item has been MODIFIED to be a weapon. Eg. Bar of soap in a sock or a baseball bat with 6" nails through it.

3 - intent
The person in possession of the item demonstrates or expresses the INTENT to use the item, regardless of what that item may be. Eg. Rolled magazine or ANY knife. Intent can be demonstrated by words (eg. Saying "I have this rope and I'm going to strangle you with it"), by actions (eg. Waving a butterknife around in a threatening manner) or any combination of the two.

This falls under the Prevention of Crime Act 1953.

More details in the link below (sorry hyperlinks don't work from my phone):

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/

Remember that all Acts are "clarified" (aka interpreted with a personal bias) by case law. This can change the detail of the Act by setting a precedent in law. For example, DPP vs Harris, 1995, set the precedent that lock knives are considered to be fixed blades for the purpose of Sect 139, CJA, 1988, exemption for sub 3" folders. Even a 1" keying folder needs a reasonable excuse to carry if it is a locker. And there is a lot of disagreement over multitools. I'm not aware of any caselaw, yet!

There was caselaw last year where an elderly man was convicted of having an offensive weapon after he made threatening remarks in a pub (IIRC). He did not have a weapon in his hands at the time. The weapon was a locker in the glove box of his car outside which was found when the Police searched vehicle.

 

[Melonfish]

I really don't want you to take this the wrong way with it being your Dad and all but, i have a great number of mates in the police and have seen the books you mention, horrendous looking things that i wouldn't want to tackle.

However, your Dad is a police officer and he carries a warrant card to arrest people who are breaking the law. I would expect him to know which laws people are breaking when he arrests them.

This has been all over the news for a few years now and is a political hot potato, so i would expect him and every officer in this country to know what is legal in what situation and what is not.

I agree, as a warrant card carrier it is expected that he know the letter of the law, however ask any of your police mates and they'll tell you they can't quote verse and chapter from those books themselves, it is a political hot potato you're right because we're expecting a lot from our police force. and to be fair the knife law is a common misconception amongst many police officers.

anyhoo i feel more confident about carrying now anyways, although i'd love to get hold of one of these cards you guys have, don't suppose anyone has a scanner? the link to the original pdf appears now gone and i'm not a member of BB.
thanks
pete

 

[John Fenna]

Follow the link and then scroll down a few posts and there is an active link for the card - just printed it off myself!

 

[Melonfish]

yeah just re-read. 7th post...d'oh.
off to print and re-size and stuff into my wallet thanks chaps.

 

[rik_uk3]

I've managed to go 55 years without the need of a knife on me, why on earth carry a blade on you?

 

[John Fenna]

I have carried a knife for the past 45+ years - don't know how I could get through the day without using one at least once a day.....

 

[Retired Member southey]

Hahaaa! and i'm only 31 and have one on me sometimes! it's swings and round abouts!

 

[Lurch]

why on earth carry a blade on you?

Why not?
It might come in useful, like John I often find the need, and it's perfectly legal to do so.

 

[Melonfish]

indeed this is it, i tend to keep it on my belt, there's always times when i need the odd tool off the swiss army (not always the knife) but its very useful.
when i go out the routine is phone, keys, wallet, pocket knife.

 

[rik_uk3]

Not really an everyday need to carry a blade around town or city. If you have a blade on you I suspect you will perhaps subconciously find a use for one that in reality is not there, you create a need in effect. Keep a little diary for a month and record how often you actually need a blade on your person.

 

[Barn Owl]

I've managed to go 55 years without the need of a knife on me, why on earth carry a blade on you?

Do you have a Butler then Rik?

I use my sak cutting blade and the other tools daily for something or other.

I've had a knife of one sort or another in a pocket since about 8 yrs old.

 

[sandbender]

Not really an everyday need to carry a blade around town or city. If you have a blade on you I suspect you will perhaps subconciously find a use for one that in reality is not there, you create a need in effect. Keep a little diary for a month and record how often you actually need a blade on your person.

You are probably correct, I do not need to carry a blade in the town or city. But I do and I do use it from time to time, I'm not breaking any laws, it isn't in plain sight so it isn't causing alarm, so why not carry one?

 

[Toddy]

I have carried a knife for the past 45+ years - don't know how I could get through the day without using one at least once a day.....

Me too and it was used last today to slice open the damned plastic stuff that holds six packs of coke, pepsi and irn bru together, in Lidl's. I only wanted two bottles.
Earlier I used it to open parcels and to do a bit more of the picking off of the hard shell on a fomes for amadou.
Today's knife in question is the Spyderco ladybug
Useful wee things

cheers,
Toddy

 

[John Fenna]

Not really an everyday need to carry a blade around town or city. If you have a blade on you I suspect you will perhaps subconciously find a use for one that in reality is not there, you create a need in effect. Keep a little diary for a month and record how often you actually need a blade on your person.

I visit a town about once or twice a week, a city.....well not at all so far this year...large villages... about 3 times a week.
How do you get into those cityfied meals - pre-packaged sarnies - without a knife ...be*ggars always defeat me!?

 

[rik_uk3]

I remember walking to the Scouts in uniform with a bloody great knife on my belt,,,, its what you did back then.

Now......I will confess to carrying a blade on me for a while a couple of years ago
http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Pages/Product.aspx?category=victorinox+flash&product=5301G4& but it went back in the draw when I removed all the other tat off my key ring. The blade is tiny as you can judge from the picture in the link. Its 512Mb (and the LED is red in colour) and is up for trade if anybody is interested? Brass Zippo would fit the bill.

 

[mrcharly]

I nearly always have a SAK in my bag. Locking blade, so in theory not EDC-legal.

However, I usually cycle the 24miles to work and have had many an occasion to use the tools on the SAK when bike breaks down, including the blade. I used to live on a boat and still spend considerable time out there - the rope tools and blade on the SAK get regular use there, at least twice a week.

Essential? No. Very very useful? yes. Justifiable? maybe.

 

[Wayland]

I've managed to go 55 years without the need of a knife on me, why on earth carry a blade on you?

There's always one and it's usually you Richard.

Like many others here, I use a blade often enough to consider it indispensable. I guess if you live and work in an environment where there is always a drawer full of tools handy you don't need one actually in your pocket. Personally I don't and just like Homo Habilis 2.4 million years ago, I think that the ability to carry and use tools gives us a slight advantage in life.