EDC no more?

[Samon]

I know a few innapropriate things have been said on this thread and however I don't condone them I do think the outbursts were down to the frustration we can feel when people who don't fully understand British culture or its very tight legal system.

I remember carrying a 4 inche lock knife with me everyday when I was a boy and no one cared even when they saw it in my little jean pocket.

It must have been the last 8 years that have really inpacted on peoples view of knives and their place in our daily lives and it is all on purpose.

People can't help but see a knife as a weapon since the media has scape goated the knives as the problem instead of the murderous thugs who use them, where as in other countries/cultures their are far more horrific things going on to care about the specific details of a pocket knife.

The majority of kids I knew or met who carried knives as weapons didn't care much for what it was as long as it sharp and metal but usually a kitchen knife or a stanley knife that they could dispose of if on the run. So I guess the laws aren't really trying to stop the thugs (as they'll use anything despite the law) ..but us as a culture from being knife friendly.

 

[Lost in civilisation]

Seems to me most folk here are just making life difficult for themselves. Don't carry a blade unless its part of your job and if it is it belongs in your tool kit or tool belt you don when AT work.

If new here and this was the first thread I read I would think 'what a bunch of knobs'.

You seem to be a little reticent Rik, I'll try and say this gently:
Under the current legislation, you can carry:
- a sub 3 inch slipjoint in most places (excluding airplanes and schools) without good reason
-or any fixed blade with good reason such as a billhook/axe/machete for scouting/gardening/sub tropical exploration.

Do bear in mind that ANY article used in an offensive manner can be classed as an Offensive Weapon, this includes hair brushes, childrens books and koala bears!


Now you insist that due to fear of our poorly informed police force that we should smash up our dangerous and spiteful 3 inch slipjoints as we don't need them, instead we should seek therapy for our Rambo-itis disease.


How about a fantasy Christmas Tale-esque story
I put it to the court that the next item on the agenda is to Ban all the folk who like their evil fixed blade knives (all the better for stabbing with remember) and their flammable liquids and their firesteels who like to congregate in the woods acting out their survivalist fantasies. Just remember to 99% of the population bushcrafting is unnecessary and practised by nutters okenest:

Most I have met are nice people who appreciate that people have different opinions and that they are welcome to practice what they like as long as it is within the bounds of the law.

-----------------
Durulz - I have just read this thread from start to end. I think you need to read what you have wrote as you have said daft things and been rude. From what I have seen of your previous posts this is not usual from you.

Knife use is obviously an emotive subject.
However, we buy into this arghh! knife culture :sad6:by not using them legally. Soon this creep will mean that laws will become more restrictive even banning knife use outside the kitchen and then all the bushcrafters can use plastic disposable spoons.

Even better bushcraft is dangerous, lets ban it cos of Health and Safety . How about we teach kids about responsible use of knives, hairbrushes and koala bears and exercise our rights sensibly to use them.


##PS - no koala bears were harmed in the making of this post

 

[HHazeldean]

Totally agree with that, nice post!

 

[mrcharly]

Theres a very interesting thread on BB re stop and search - i think I was only 1 of about half a dozen who have ever ben stopped by the police - yes i had my pocket knife and no it wasn't a problem

peope need to chill out about all this....

I was the other one.

Stopped and searched at York train station. The police were using Section 44 (I think that's right) powers to deter kids from kicking off on trains. I wasn't a random search subject; the police have to ensure they aren't picking on a particular ethnic group, so have a 'quota' system. I happened to be the 'middle-aged white male'.

 

[rik_uk3]

really well said mate, i bowed out of this thread when it looked inevitable that it was to degenerate into a mug slinging match, it's nice to see a voice of calm reason keeping it within the realms of what's acceptable on a forum of this nature.
as opposed to......



wow! i know that politics and religion are banned from the forum, could someone please clarify for me just exactly where we stand on the kind of completely unwarranted offensive and inflamatory remark that i've quoted above,

thanks

stuart

Whats your problem, just pointing out that things are very different between our countries. Chill Stuart.

 

[Corso]

Whats your problem, just pointing out that things are very different between our countries. Chill Stuart.

best reply by far...

 

[shaggystu]

Whats your problem, just pointing out that things are very different between our countries. Chill Stuart.

my problem is that i feel a certain sense of responsibility towards this forum and the way that it, and it's members, are viewed by the rest of the world. just occasionally someone says something on here that i feel needs to be firmly rebuked by at least one other member for the sake of giving a moderate and balanced impression of ourselves. usually i try and avoid getting involved with such matters, but on this occasion i personally found the statement to be unwarranted, inflamatory and offensive, and as such i felt it necessary to take a pro-active approach in distancing myself from it.

i feel that we quite often forget that much as we may protest that the views we express on here are solely our own personal views that's not at all how we are viewed from without. we're all members of a community here, one that we've all chosen to join, and as such i feel that we should act accordingly. i personally believe that to a certain extent we should all be acting as "ambassadors" of BCUK and trying to remember that all of the views and opinions that we express on this forum are freely available for anyone with an internet connection to view. as such i think that comments that could be viewed in a negative light (for example opinions that portray a negative stereotypical and false image of other ratial/national/social/religious/political groups) are best left unsaid. i'm aware of the fact that the ban on discusion of religious and/or political matters would cover, for example, anti-semetic remarks, i was simply wondering where we stood as a whole on the issue of remarks of an insulting and prejudiced nature in general.

and as for "chill stuart", don't you worry yourself, i'm perfectly chilled.

stuart

 

[lab72]

Well said !

 

[Tony]

K, time to draw a line under things and move on, do not make this personal, although I appreciate this is sometimes hard due to the nature of posts, but this is the internet and you're not face to face so things seem worse and we also say things we would not usually.

Carry on the thread, keep it a friendly discussion, if anyone feel the need to rant, whine, moan, snipe etc etc then walk away so we don't have to close the thread.

Thanks

 

[nigeltm]

Tony,

Thanks for giving the warning and showing patience. Snipes aside this is an interesting thread and it would be a shame to see it shut down. Certainly some threads have been locked in the past (one just a couple of days ago) when a mod thought it had the only the potential to break the rules! So to have one get a warning and leave it with the possibility of recovering is appreciated.

Nigel.

 

[HHazeldean]

K, time to draw a line under things and move on, do not make this personal, although I appreciate this is sometimes hard due to the nature of posts, but this is the internet and you're not face to face so things seem worse and we also say things we would not usually.

Carry on the thread, keep it a friendly discussion, if anyone feel the need to rant, whine, moan, snipe etc etc then walk away so we don't have to close the thread.

Thanks

Very fair, thanks for not closing the thread as I reckon that it is certainly a very interesting one.

Thanks

 

[Martyn]

Wow, a hot thread about knife law - who'd have thunkitt?

Just a couple of comments really as most of the law has been well covered. The police - well they are professionals, that doesnt mean they are encyclopaedias. Look at how much debate, confusion, uncertainty, argument and conflict we continue to see on this subject, in spite of year after year of re-hashing the same statutes and information - everybody is still confused. That's because it's complicated and we are only talking about half a dozen statutes. It's estimated that there are more than 3500 classes of criminal offence in the UK. I hope they are not all as complicated as knife law.

Point? Dont expect police officers to know the letter of the law, some will know it better than others, but for the best part, assume a "working knowledge" and you'll be about right.

So what does working knowledge mean? Well in the current climate, it means knife in yer pocket and you're nicked son! For the most part anyway. Unless that is, you can convince the copper otherwise. If you are lucky, they might have a better than working knowledge, but dont count on it. Whether or not you actually do end up down the nick, depends on a lot of things. Do you have a spiders web tattooed on your face? Are you carrying a bag marked "loot"? Are your knuckles bleeding? Do you have long hair? Are you wearing green? Who knows what trips the switch in the mind of a cop, I'll leave you to ponder that one, but this is crucial - context is everything. What you are wearing, your demeanour, your attitude, your location and what you say and do all play a part. If you are clearly a mature person, calm, sensible, sober, chatty, friendly, clean etc - there is virtually nil chance of you being searched, let alone arrested.

On the point of carrying a knife on your belt - well that is not advised. It's technically legal, but not advised. Why? Well all it takes for something to become a weapon, is for someone to feel threatened by it and you. Just seeing a knife on your belt is probably all it would take these days - especially in a pub or somewhere. If that person phones the cops, you're done. Even if your knife is legal. You've made someone scared with it, so you've turned it into a weapon. Job done, you're nicked.

Dont take the chance, keep it out of sight unless you have need to use it and be mindful of the circumstances you are in at all times. Be aware, that if anyone feels threatened by you using the knife, they you are breaking the law and you have no defence, legal knife or not.

Finally, I carry a legal knife on me most of the time, because I want to and it's my right to do so without the need to justify it to anyone, including the police. That is my right under English law and I will exercise it if I choose to do so. That is all anyone needs to know. If you dont like it, then petition the government to change the law, otherwise, I politely request that you shut up!

Oh, one more thing, never, ever sign a caution unless you have been strongly advised to do so by a solicitor. Just because the police think you have committed an offence, doesnt mean you have, but when you sign a caution, you are accepting that you have committed an offence - you are signing a CONFESSION! Game over. The police cannot detain you for more than 24 hours without charging you and you have the right to a solicitor, it's free - use it and remember, there are such things as unlawful imprisonment, wrongful arrest and malicious prosecution. If you are simply carrying a swiss army knife in your pocket, if it does not lock, if it has a blade less than 3 inches and you do not intend to use it as a weapon, then you have not committed an offence.

 

[sandbender]

"...Dont take the chance, keep it out of sight unless you have need to use it and be mindful of the circumstances you are in at all times. Be aware, that if anyone feels threatened by you using the knife, they you are breaking the law and you have no defence, legal knife or not..."

"...Finally, I carry a legal knife on me most of the time, because I want to and it's my right to do so without the need to justify it to anyone, including the police..."

Great stuff Martyn.

 

[paulValk]

Just a slight off topic , but how many here have been stopped and searched

 

[shaggystu]

Just a slight off topic , but how many here have been stopped and searched

me for one

stuart

 

[Samon]

I've been stopped and searched a few times, didn't have any sort on me those times though. They kindly asked me if I had any needles in my pockets though..

I carry a legal SAK in a pouch on my belt everyday, I do so because IMO it's better as it's not concealed like a weapon. All the people I know who carry weapons hide them and I have NOTHING to hide as I don't break the law and no my rights.

 

[Martyn]

I asked this question on BritishBlades here....

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?75887

The question was "Have you been stopped and searched in the last 10 years?"

Of the 238 people who responded, 208 said never (87%).

Of course, as you lot are such scruffy reprobates, I would imagine it would be the other way round here. Either that, or we have a better dressed class of knife wielding maniac on BritishBlades.