Dying Ventile?

[Tony]

Anyone ever dyed Ventile? I've got quite a bit of terracotta and it's not the most attractive of colours for an outdoor garment.

Any advice most welcome

 

[innocent bystander]

I reckon drown it for a long period of time, to get the dye soaked in. That said experiment with a small bit ???

 

[Tex]

has it been treated any time recently?

 

[Motorbike Man]

Ventile is only cotton, so AFAIK you should be able to dye in a machine with dylon type dyes. I have a friend who will know, but Toddy might have some thoughts on it as well.

 

[Tony]

Yeah, that was my thinking as well, I was just wondering if the tightness of teh weave would have any effect on it....

Thanks guys....Toddy...You about?

 

[match]

You can probably get away with dying it - I've seen gabardine dyed before with no problems, other than needing a longer soak int he dye and a good stirring due to the tighter weave.

One thing to check - try immersing the item completely in cold water and then lifting it out - some garments made with ventile etc are treated with a waterproof coating, and if this is the case, when you lift it out the water it won't be soaking wet, but the water will run off it - as would any dyes you tried to use...

 

[Tex]

I have considerd dying my windproof smock, but concerns about the DPM base colours bleeding through have put me off. Its not ventilte,it polycotton, great smock, just would like it green any thoughs

 

[greg2935]

you should have no problem dying ventile, ventile looses its "waterproofness" as soon as the material is immersed in water and reacts like normal cotton after that. As for the type of dye, I'm not sure but do not see how it could affect the material. Have a look at http://www.pburch.net/index.shtml for some good basic info of dye types and what dyes to use.

Greg

 

[Toddy]

Anyone ever dyed Ventile? I've got quite a bit of terracotta and it's not the most attractive of colours for an outdoor garment.

Any advice most welcome

What colour would you *like*?
Terracotta is a deep colour that won't lighten with dye so you need a colour remover wash first. There's also a good chance that the cloth has been uv stabilized to stop the fabric fading too quickly so you may have to repeat the process and use a dye fixative when you finally re-dye.
Whatever you do, wash the cloth a couple of times first, it's astonishing how much gunk comes out.

The easiest course would be to overdye with a deep shade of brown; green on red will be inclined to give you plum for some reason, so I pre-suppose thats a NO-NO. Blue on terracotta bizarrely gave me purple Dylon do a wash in sachet for about a fiver that would certainly darken the fabric down.

On the other hand......oak bark boiled up and allowed to steep, add some bog iron water and soak the cloth, stir frequently and you will get dark brown, if you get the mix right you just might manage black I've got a ton of oak bark (literally) sitting for dyeing and tanning.....collection advised, heaven knows what the P.O. will want to deliver. It'd be truly bushcrafty then though.
Best of luck with it Tony.

Cheerws,
Toddy

 

[MagiKelly]

Not ventile, but I recently dyed a few pairs of DPM Dutch army trousers. The DPM was getting to me. I dyed two pairs Black so they came out a grey / mottled green, which is great. The other pair I tried the colour remover, which didn't remove ANY colour and then dyed them dark green which made the trousers DPM with a green tint. All in all the black dye gave an acceptable colour to me and I may even do my jacket next. Either that or nick round to Toddy's house for some bark

 

[Toddy]

. All in all the black dye gave an acceptable colour to me and I may even do my jacket next. Either that or nick round to Toddy's house for some bark

I'm coming down your way this week, I've got friends in Lochwinnoch who work some of the Countryside Ranger days with me and they're growing dyeplants on for me just now. If you want bark, let me know, Joe uses it for making paths and he can collect from the Galgael's Govan workshops.
Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Motorbike Man]

What colour would you *like*?
Terracotta is a deep colour that won't lighten with dye so you need a colour remover wash first. There's also a good chance that the cloth has been uv stabilized to stop the fabric fading too quickly so you may have to repeat the process and use a dye fixative when you finally re-dye.
Whatever you do, wash the cloth a couple of times first, it's astonishing how much gunk comes out.

The easiest course would be to overdye with a deep shade of brown; green on red will be inclined to give you plum for some reason, so I pre-suppose thats a NO-NO. Blue on terracotta bizarrely gave me purple Dylon do a wash in sachet for about a fiver that would certainly darken the fabric down.

On the other hand......oak bark boiled up and allowed to steep, add some bog iron water and soak the cloth, stir frequently and you will get dark brown, if you get the mix right you just might manage black I've got a ton of oak bark (literally) sitting for dyeing and tanning.....collection advised, heaven knows what the P.O. will want to deliver. It'd be truly bushcrafty then though.
Best of luck with it Tony.

Cheerws,
Toddy

Out of curiosity, how fast would that dye be Toddy? do you need a mordant or is that the bog iron water? what is bog iron water?

 

[Toddy]

Rock solid usually. It does fade more on cotton and linen than on wool though. To dye cotton and linen successfully, not just stain it, the cloth has to be alumed, tannined and then re-alumed before dyeing. Mordants are metals that create the right conditions within the fibres to make it hang onto (fix) the dye. *But* all mordants are toxic and they will damage the fibres, leaving them brittle, so as little as possible is my rule of thumb.
There are a few dyes that are substantial dyes and need no mordants though they give better results with them. Madder root, Rubia Tinctorum is one, Woad, Isatis tinctoria, these two grow wild in the uk. Tannin dyes work very well too; that's where the oak bark comes in and by adding iron it'll become very dark. I said bog iron water because it's a naturally occuring source of accessible iron, but a couple of iron tablets crushed and dissoved in hot water work very well as a substitiute.
Bog iron water can be found where there is a geological condition called iron pan. This is where poor drainage, usually on clay, (well, where I live it is) causes a built up of minerals leached from higher layers, it creates a cementing effect, and the soil above is poor stuff for growing without an awful lot of work. Where the iron pan is exposed, say from peat workings, the water that gathers is bog iron. There are other ways, there has to be a Geologist amongst us surely, who can tell us.

I'm advertised (again!) in the local paper as, "Practising Natural Dying from 12 until 3 today". Gavin says that as long as it's not permanent he won't mind too much Wish folk would get it right...makes me look like a tube.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tony]

I think your name needs to be changed to Toddy the Encyclopaedia

 

[match]

I'm advertised (again!) in the local paper as, "Practising Natural Dying from 12 until 3 today"

Its only when they put it in the paper WITHOUT you asking them to that you need to worry!

For anyone interested in natural dyes, there are some common plants and associated colours given here:

http://www.pioneerthinking.com/naturaldyes.html

Note, that since they are using salt and vinegar as fixatives, these will not be as fixed as using chemical mordants (alum, copperas etc) but should still give some hold to the colour. A lot of plants vary greatly in their natural fixing abilities, so its worth experimenting. As Toddy said, Tannins dye fast, as do lichen-based dyes, but then you need quite a lot of lichen, and I always for some reason feel worse about pulling up clumps of lichen than I do about stealing tree bark or plant leaves

 

[Motorbike Man]

Rock solid usually. It does fade more on cotton and linen than on wool though. To dye cotton and linen successfully, not just stain it, the cloth has to be alumed, tannined and then re-alumed before dyeing. Mordants are metals that create the right conditions within the fibres to make it hang onto (fix) the dye. *But* all mordants are toxic and they will damage the fibres, leaving them brittle, so as little as possible is my rule of thumb.
There are a few dyes that are substantial dyes and need no mordants though they give better results with them. Madder root, Rubia Tinctorum is one, Woad, Isatis tinctoria, these two grow wild in the uk. Tannin dyes work very well too; that's where the oak bark comes in and by adding iron it'll become very dark. I said bog iron water because it's a naturally occuring source of accessible iron, but a couple of iron tablets crushed and dissoved in hot water work very well as a substitiute.
Bog iron water can be found where there is a geological condition called iron pan. This is where poor drainage, usually on clay, (well, where I live it is) causes a built up of minerals leached from higher layers, it creates a cementing effect, and the soil above is poor stuff for growing without an awful lot of work. Where the iron pan is exposed, say from peat workings, the water that gathers is bog iron. There are other ways, there has to be a Geologist amongst us surely, who can tell us.

I'm advertised (again!) in the local paper as, "Practising Natural Dying from 12 until 3 today". Gavin says that as long as it's not permanent he won't mind too much Wish folk would get it right...makes me look like a tube.

Cheers,
Toddy

That's great Toddy, Not only fascinating but helpful as well.

Tony, some friends of mine are going to have a go at machine dying a sample of ventile soon as they have a load they're going to make some smocks and stuff with, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Tony]

Cool, I'll be very interested

 

[MagiKelly]

I'm coming down your way this week, I've got friends in Lochwinnoch who work some of the Countryside Ranger days with me and they're growing dyeplants on for me just now. If you want bark, let me know, Joe uses it for making paths and he can collect from the Galgael's Govan workshops.
Cheers,
Toddy

Thanks for the offer but I will pass for the moment. Which remonds me I must get a big pot for boiling all the things that my wife won't let me put in the kitchen pots. My 10cm billy can is not really up to it.

So are you in Lochwinnoch for a demonstration or just visiting friends?

 

[Stuart]

dyeing ventile is not difficult but because the fibers are so tightly woven in ventile and expand when wet the dye does not penitrate all the way though the fabric.

this is not a problem straight away but with time it can take on a 'stone wash' effect

 

[Toddy]

Thanks for the offer but I will pass for the moment. Which remonds me I must get a big pot for boiling all the things that my wife won't let me put in the kitchen pots. My 10cm billy can is not really up to it.

So are you in Lochwinnoch for a demonstration or just visiting friends?

Try typing Stock Pot into Ebay....I got some brilliant dye baths really cheaply this way.
I'm visiting friends who do 'Gardening for Wildlife' events. They've got plants growing that I struggle to start on my heavy Lanarkshire clay and I grow plants here that they can't easily get...there's a loose network of folks like us all over the country. We bump into each other at various events over the seasons. It's a good way to meet likeminded folks that become good friends. I'm trying to think of the next event that I'm working over your way, I'll let you know

Cheers,
Toddy