Do not choose to Fly KLM Dutch airlines.

[Dave]

If you want to take a lighter with you.....

This company are a right pain in the behind.

Im flying out to Sweden with KLM, to attend a course, and I need to take a lighter with me.

Most airlines allow you to take a lighter, so long as it is empty of fuel and you abide by their rules.

The UK Government actually states on their website:

Dangerous and restricted items, what you can and cannot take with you on an airplane:

Cigarette lighter

(you can put a lighter in a plastic liquids bag and keep it on your person)

https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions/overview

LightersYou can only carry 1 lighter on board. You should put it inside a resealable plastic bag (like the ones used for liquids), which you must keep on you throughout the flight. You can’t:

• put it in your hold luggage
• put it in your hand luggage after screening

So I called KLM, on their Leeds airport number: 08705074074, for days and days and days. No-one picks up the phone. Just goes dead after a couple of rings.

So called them on their main customer service number, three times, each time spoke to someone, who could not give me a definitive answer on whether I am allowed to take any lighter, empty, or new, in hand, or hold luggage, or on my person as stated by UK website.

I even wrote their MD an email, no response.

Its ridiculous. Customer services just say, it may be taken away it may not. Some say its no allowed at all, others say, take a chance.

They dont know. Its up to security on the day and how they feel.
Can I speak to security or email security? No.
Can you email security on my behalf and ask? No.

Ive got a nice engraved brass zippo lighter, that wasnt cheap, that I would like to take with me, but it is impossible to get an answer from KLM, as to whether I can take it or not.

Ridiculous, disorganised policies.

Next Time I go north I'll make sure Im flying Norwegian Air or an airline which has an understandable written down policy about what you can take as hold or hand luggage. Or what can be carried on your person.

Safety matches (one small packet) or a cigarette lighter that does not contain unabsorbed liquid fuel, other than liquefied gas, intended for use by an individual when carried on the person.

All the planning that goes into a trip and the biggest headache is because of KLM's incompetence!

 

[Ahjno]

Each year I fly with KLM to Cardiff. Last few years I had a lighter in my handluggage. Once a zippo, once a cheap Bic lighter. No issues on both accounts.

Personally I'd think twice on taking a 'nice engraved brass zippo lighter' on a course. But each to his own.

If KLM let you down with regards to service: file a complaint. Don't rant online, but do something that may result in a chance for them taking away your bad feelings about the company.

Learn how to ask where to buy a lighter in Norwegian. It's part of the adventure.

A dutchman boltly said

 

[Dave]

Each year I fly with KLM to Cardiff. Last few years I had a lighter in my handluggage. Once a zippo, once a cheap Bic lighter. No issues on both accounts.

Personally I'd think twice on taking a 'nice engraved brass zippo lighter' on a course. But each to his own.

If KLM let you down with regards to service: file a complaint. Don't rant online, but do something that may result in a chance for them taking away your bad feelings about the company.

Learn how to ask where to buy a lighter in Norwegian. It's part of the adventure.

A dutchman boltly said

Hey Ahjno,

Nothing wrong with a justifiable frustrated rant, if youve got something to rant about.
I see nothing wrong with sharing a poor experience of a company with a wider audience.
I have filed a complaint with them.

Interesting that you got away with it though...and I dont need another lighter mate. Ive got a perfectly good one, right here...

Proost!

 

[Adze]

Do they not sell lighters in the airport in Sweden? Pretty weird if they don't as they do more or less everywhere else... even Cork airport (read as two converted prefab wriggly tin cowsheds and Maureen 'da customs orificer') had a kiosk - I've never travelled to Sweden, so I may be completely wrong.

 

[Lister]

If it were me, I'd just bin the inards and keep the shell and just buy a new inner when you get to wherever it is your going, the inners are cheap, the outers (especially pretty ones) not so much.

 

[KayakFisherFinland]

To my knowledge the airline has nothing to do with airport security, so not really klm issu.

 

[Dave]

To my knowledge the airline has nothing to do with airport security, so not really klm issu.

Of course its a KLM issue. Individual airlines are supposed to inform you what is allowed or disallowed.

 

[Dave]

If it were me, I'd just bin the inards and keep the shell and just buy a new inner when you get to wherever it is your going, the inners are cheap, the outers (especially pretty ones) not so much.

Yes, it may come to that. I read you can use normal cotton balls as wads, instead of rayon ones in zippos, which are just plasticised cotton. So maybe if I take it all apart, and just take the case with me in my pocket, and some cotton balls in my main luggage, i could find a tobacconists in stockholm, and buy another inner, then bin it before the return flight. Bit of a hassle though. And a waste as Im sure solid brass inners wont be cheap in sweden.
Nope, probably just have to leave all lighters behind.

I just quite fancied taking the zippo, and maybe getting it engraved on the back afterwards, as a memory, a personal keepsake.

 

[Two Socks]

Ridiculous, disorganised policies.

Next Time I go north I'll make sure Im flying Norwegian Air or an airline which has an understandable written down policy about what you can take as hold or hand luggage. Or what can be carried on your person.

A 3 second google search yielded me this very clear list of things you can`t bring as hold or hand luggage: http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/pre...e/baggage_allowance/restricted_baggage.htm#p7

Lighters are on that list, apparently. However, I have never had any trouble having lighters in my handluggage or check-in bags with KLM nor with other airlines. If you are worried, then make sure your zippo is empty and put it in your check-in luggage. It won`t be a problem there.

 

[Dave]

Yeh, I read that list Two socks, which if anything says they are banned, it actually states lighters are not allowed if you read it.

RESTRICTED ARTICLES

• [FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, Lucida Grande, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Lighters and matches – only safety matches may be taken in hand baggage[/FONT]

• [FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, Lucida Grande, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, verdana, arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]So at best its ambigious, and is what led me to contact them in the first place. And ask, if I could take them on my person, or in my main luggage. They cant give you a straight answer for that. Theres no policy. First one said NO. Second one didnt know. Third one said, take a risk!
  
  If you guys have been able to take lighters, i your hand luggage, then why are they on the restricted items list?
  
  Thats my point they are disorganised, and dont give out clear information. They actually refer to the list youve posted, themselves when you call them, and dont know what to tell you. It needs to be clearer, as the norwegian air link above is.

 

[cbr6fs]

Of course its a KLM issue. Individual airlines are supposed to inform you what is allowed or disallowed.

Airlines do not have any say in what's allowed or not allowed on a plane.
Airlines do not provide security for either hold or hand luggage
Hold and hand luggage security is completely separate to the airlines

Airline security is fluid in as much as, if a credible threat is received airline security will do what i can to minimise that threat.
So you may speak to someone on Monday that says a object is allowed, but this may have changed on Wednesday when you fly.
Any airline that told you 100% what you can or cannot take is just telling you what you want to hear.

I can understand the annoyance at the lack of responses, but KLM are just being honest when they tell you there is a chance it will be confiscated.



1 option.
Before you leave home make out a stamped addressed envelope
Arrive at the security checkpoint early
If they won't allow it on the plane then turn around, head back to land-side and post it back to yourself

Personally if the lighter has sentimental value i would not risk it.
It's clearly stated that lighters are not allowed, so if the lighter is spotted then there is a good chance it will be confiscated, it's really your gamble to take or not.

 

[Two Socks]

It is indeed peculiar that when you call them they won`t give you a clear answer. I would have expected them to inform you lighters are not permitted, if only because that is what is stated on their website.

I find it odd that many of us apparently make it through with "hazardous and forbidden" objects as lighters, but they have never let me keep the water I bring to put out the fire with when boarding starts.

 

[Dave]

Airlines do not have any say in what's allowed or not allowed on a plane.

Im not sure where you get that information from, as I sent an email to the UK government services department, who published the article;

Dangerous and restricted items, what you can and cannot take on a flight

As per my op, they stated that you can take on a lighter with you on your person.

When I contacted them, and informed them of KLM's response they backpedalled a bit imo, and responded thus:

We understand that what is allowed onboard an aircraft is at the discretion of the airline.

 

[Chainsaw]

KLM website here states the rules. My emphasis in bold.

[h=3]Explosives and flammable substances[/h]You may not take any explosive or highly flammable substances in your hand baggage or check-in baggage which may pose a risk to the health or property of passengers and crew or to the safety of the aircraft. These include:

• Aerosol spray paint cans
• Alcoholic beverages exceeding 70% by volume (140 proof)
• Ammunition
• Blasting caps
• Detonators and fuses
• Explosives and explosive devices
• Fireworks or flares in any form (including fire- and Christmas crackers and toy caps)
• Flammable liquid fuel, e.g. petrol, diesel, lighter fluid, alcohol, ethanol
• Gas and gas bottles, e.g. butane, propane, acetylene, oxygen in large volumes
• Grenades
• Lighters and matches – only safety matches may be taken in hand baggage
• Mines and other explosive military devices
• Replica or imitation explosive materials or explosives
• Smoke grenades or cartridges
• Turpentine and paint thinner

 

[Laurentius]

Why not just take the lighter in two parts, the case, and a cheap inner in a plastic bag, and keep them well apart, that way you only stand to lose the inner, and if you did not lose it, then no problem.

 

[cbr6fs]

Im not sure where you get that information from, as I sent an email to the UK government services department, who published the article;

Dangerous and restricted items, what you can and cannot take on a flight

As per my op, they stated that you can take on a lighter with you on your person.

When I contacted them, and informed them of KLM's response they backpedalled a bit imo, and responded thus:

I work within airport security Dave and have done for 15 years.

The regulation airport security generally falls under the civil aviation authority right now.
I say generally as your destination also plays a part in who's authority the security falls under.

The current regulation body for airport security in the UK is the Civil aviation authority.
Looking on their website they do have a section on lighters and a smaller section specifically on Zippos
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2200&pageid=14492

Small cigarette lighter

No more than one per person, intended for use by an individual and does not contain unabsorbed liquid fuel (other than liquefied gas).

Note: a 'Zippo' lighter that is fully absorbed in wadding i.e. an absorbed liquid lighter can be carried by passengers.

Great you are allowed to take it

It's not that simple though as you are flying into Swedish airspace, so will have a different governing body, will they allow it?
The security checkpoint you pass through will not be 100% dedicated for your flight, there might be flights that have tighter restrictions, that will mean that each checkpoint will have to adhere to the tightest restriction.
Plus as i said earlier, there could be a threat reported the day of your flight and as a result all lighters are banned.


Can i say 100% that it will be allowed on that flight to that destination on that day?
Nope


You could print out the CAA rules and argue the toss if you get stopped, if tighter regulations are in place that day though you could argue till you are blue in the face and it still not be allowed on the plane.

So it's a gamble, your lighter, your risk
Personally i'd just buy a cheap lighter when i land.

Another alternative is to post it to your destination say 1 week before you leave, it'll be there waiting for you then.

Just think though Dave, you can buy several Bics when you land, they'll be lighter and more reliable, so it's not really much of a compromise is it mate?

 

[Dave]

Specifically wanted to take a zippo, as they are better suited but thanks for the additional info.

 

[santaman2000]

I work within airport security Dave and have done for 15 years.

The regulation airport security generally falls under the civil aviation authority right now.
I say generally as your destination also plays a part in who's authority the security falls under.....

I think the point is that YES, the civil authorities in any jurisdiction have the ultimate responsibility, they generally allow the airlines to impose further restrictions (although said airlines can't make exemptions to civil restrictions) In example the list posted for KLM by Chainsaw in Post # 13 says ammunition isn't allowed. TSA allows ammo as long as it's properly packed and locked in stowed luggage (again, you'd still need to check the local jurisdictions you're flying to and through)

 

[Shewie]

The lovely people at Pudong airport nicked two Clippers off me last week, matches were okay but no lighters on board.

It's funny, I sat in the exact same seat on the same plane on the way out three days earlier and there wasn't a problem then.

 

[rik_uk3]

Dave, chill out mate, your blowing this out of all proportion; just buy a lighter when you land.