Do i cut it or dry it first

[keithhazel]

Apologies if wrong place for this question but new here and short of time to read what to do and not to do... i spend all year looking for wood of all descriptions for a couple of pensioners with open fires,by chance and some effort i have permission to collect and take home with me 15-20 branches that where cut from a BIG tree maybe 6 months ago..they range from 7 inches thick to 15, mostly around 10..i only have a gardening cart and i have a mile and half round trip to get them,some i have to cut with my battery powered chainsaw which is meant for garden branches as the last one i got 4 foot long and a foot thick took me three full battery charges to get through..now while chain sawing at home with a proper chainsaw at times with nice straight thick branches i found myself cutting half inch slices and thinking they will make nice home made cup/plate mats...and before i go too far i would like to know should i cut the slices now while the wood is moist and let it dry or do i let the branch/trunk dry out and cut then...its dead easy now to cut while moist but i have no idea what half inch slices will do as drying out..a lot of forums are american so your tree's will be different perhaps, i'm from the UK...also i fancy drying out a couple of thick ones 12-14 inches thick and trying my hand on them something less artistic then you guys, just a basic sewing box perhaps and would appreciate any links showing me what kind of carving tools i should be looking to buy...if you have not fallen asleep by now i appreciate you taking the time and ALL advice will be gratefully accepted.
Regards Keith

 

[Robson Valley]

Welcome.

There are tremendous forces of stress as wood dries. A friend had a glue-up table top explode in the middle of a night. Wood wasn't dry enough and the pieces moved against eachother. I had a mostly carved bowl split in half with a 3/4" crack the whole length.

You have some choices. I'd suggest that you use enough wood to try several things.
1. Find some old, crappy paint or glue, even, and paint the ends of some log pieces. The idea is to slow down the rate of water loss from the cut open ends so that it's more like the side surface. The usual rule of thumb is that outdoors, under cover (not cooked in a shed), most woods air-dry about 1" thickness per year. Thus, you would give a 2" branch at least 1 year to dry down to a Moisture Content of some 12-14%.
2. Cut a few slices of the fresh wood. What with some sanding, etc., I'd look at 1" as well as 1/2 inch
3. To relieve much of the drying stress, it's not uncommon to make a cut down one side of the log to control the opening as an artificial crack.
Here in the Pacific Northwest, the totem poles so important in native cultures are intended to be viewed from 1 side only. It's usual to cut out 1/4 - 1/3 of the entire log in the back side.
4. Thinking about a project, are any of the log pieces big enough that they could be split evenly into two halves? If so = your best bet, paint the ends anyway.
= = =
I've been a wood carver for some time. I have piles of log pieces both indoors and out. I don't remember how old some of it is.
Tradesmen have different tool sets for their different occupations. So it is with wood carving.
The UK has some excellent makers such as Henry Taylor, Ashley Iles and custom bladesmiths abound.
Stubai and Pfeil on the continent are good, too. I use mostly Pfeil.
So it would be illuminating to visit each of their websites, there's quite a bit to learn about the wood carver's gouges,
the sweeps defined by the London Pattern Book.

The traditional tools of the PacNW native carvers are crooked knives and both elbow and D adzes. Kestrel Tool makes those.
Hope this is a positive contribution.

 

[woof]

I'm not a wood carver, but now days I have a gardening business, & supply florists with "wood rounds" for them to put flower decorations on, not had any complaints whether its green or dry wood, they do need spraying though, or at say weddings when the decorations are out, it gets warm & all the bugs & insects come crawling out of the wood !.


Oh yeah, get a decent chainsaw !

Rob

 

[woodspirits]

Hi Keith, excellent advice from Robson V as usual. For small rounds I would be drying pieces prior to cutting, there will be a bit of wastage to be taken off the ends so initially cut longer than you need. Even so there will be the odd piece that will still disappoint from time to time. Your sewing box project will need drying whether hollowed or sectional for best results. However I still carve green sometimes too, don't forget to show us your work

 

[keithhazel]

Thanks for replying with a positive attitude, ive had a PM telling me i will have upset some on here QUOTE.."There are other people who are short of time, and sometimes if you don't read what you should have read already it can waste not only your own time, but THEIR time too.

They sometimes get impatient with the attitude you appear to take about the relative importance of your time and the time of other people.

I hope none of them reads what you wrote."

For anyone i did upset/peeve i can only apologise and did not mean i cant be bothered to spend my time reading what you have put or not treat your time as important but panicked a bit as i am so short of time and some test slices i cut a week ago with my electric chainsaw that where left in a lounge have already started to curve..i don't want to waste the opportunity of having a go doing something arty with the thick branch's/trunks and also waste what logs i am able to cut for the pensioners i supply.. Keith

 

[keithhazel]

i have a fine Chainsaw if i had a mile long electric lead Thanks for useful reply
regards Keith

 

[keithhazel]

Thanks for very useful info..the biggest i can manage to drag back on my garden cart are just over 4 foot long and a foot thick..it was 12 foot long but 5 battery charges and 2 inch's with my handsaw and now its three bits..shame as i would love a totem, got a 3.5 foot and a five foot one in lounge but there classed as a toy i expect lol...thanks for pile of info which like all others i got will be read carefully,i,m going to have to organise something outdoor under cover for the big bits i save, i shall save my endless questions and ask this one only...do i strip the bark off the branch's/trunks to save any insects in the moist bark digging into the wood or not ?
Thanks Keith

 

[Robson Valley]

Maybe their bolts are done up a little too tight?

Yeah, peel off all the bark. It "slips" most easily in the spring when the sap starts running. If it's really tight, a 12" drawknife
will do it with a lot of physical labor.

I don't mind trying to explain to any newcomers the useful stuff that I've picked up and experimented with over the years.
I'm very fortunate to have a rustic furniture shop maybe 200m down my street. They make everything from logs and thick woody stems,
from really big beds to tables and chairs, even the diamond willow cane that I walk with. They have been great guys to talk
wood harvesting/drying (8 year rotation in some of their bins) to adhesives and finishing.

BTW, in my avatar, that's me standing beside some Douglas-fir log pieces behind their shop. Gas power saw with a 36" bar.
You ought to consider a gas power saw, just a little fellow with a 16" bar. Dime a dozen here (I got a Poulan for free because nobody wanted it).
I have a 16" plug-in electric Remington (another freebee) that I can use in the house for some bigger carving roughouts.
Your best chances for workable drying is to leave everything outdoors, even a tarp for cover.

 

[Toddy]

Keith, firstly welcome to the virtual campfire that is BcUK

This forum only thrives because people talk, discuss, ask and answer questions, actually get involved in conversations. No one, especially a newbie ought to be railed agin when they ask a relevant question.

Robson Valley, Woof and Woodspirits have answered with all the information, and more, that I could, so I'll just wish you the best of luck making useful and beautiful items from the timber

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Robson Valley]

keith: a note about totem poles.
1. Real totem poles are stood up in front of people's houses to face the ocean or the river. Reading from the bottom, upwards, the totems describe the heritage and the social affiliations of the clan membership of the people who live there. If and when they fall over, they are never to be stood up again. There are 4 distinctly different styles of carving in the Pacific Northwest = North coast (which includes Haida Gwaii,) Mid coast, South coast and West coast (of Vancouver Island.) At a glance, they all look the same. When you learn what to look for, it doesn't take a minute to understand where the pole comes from. Wannabe fakes are really easy to spot. I won't ever carve a totem pole as I am not related to any of those people.
2. Mortuary poles. I hope that the name is self-explanatory.
3. Story poles. Anything goes! The pole describes an event, a great adventure or something which normally takes place over a period of time like baby birds being cared for and growing up. Maybe the salmon life cycle. Thus, anybody is welcome to carve these. I have two of them on my bench at the moment, 5" x 5" x 64" western red cedar.
They are beyond the "wood-butchery" stage into the "cake decorating" stage and progress is miserably slow. Today is a blizzard so I don't really care.
I have a third one standing in a corner for 5(?) years that I really must finish.
= =
PacNW native art and carvings have very conservative design elements, things you can and can't do, relative to your heritage. There's no room or place for exploration. Instead, the true elegance is the expression of a lifetime of apprenticeship and work to combine the design features.
The art and carvings are inescapable here. I see it every day, even in my little BC interior village. Strong influence on me for about 60 years. I have "invented" several design elements which are outside that of any native art. That's how I tag my carvings as having been done by a non-native.
Carry on.

 

[woodspirits]

that's an odd reply you quoted Keith, funny, I thought these forums were for like minded people to discuss various aspects of our hobby? yes there are ample archives to refer to, but the social interaction here is exceptional and I have yet to be reprimanded for seeking help and advice. As in all walks of life we can all have off days or posts can read a little grouchy, maybe rather than berate a newcomer perhaps some people would be better off just joining a library?

 

[Goatboy]

Hi Keith,
Welcome to the forum, sounds like you'll have plenty wood for the campfire; virtual or otherwise.
Feel sorry that your post attracted some negative comments. One of the things that has made it feel like a home for the last decade is that I've found it the biggest group of kind and erudite folks.
I'm an ex forester and like you cut a lot of extra timber for the local folks who were older and or financially not so well off. Also did some chainsaw carving and wood turning. Robson and the others have put in some good salient points, proper seasoning is pretty important as most disks will split catastrophically if you cut them wet and then dry them. Different woods behave in different ways, so I'd start experimenting along the.lines of some of the earlier posts in the thread. You'll start to build a feel for what timbers from what part of the tree will do what.
Good luck with Tue experiments and remember the credo we have here; pictures or it didn't happen.
ATB,
GB.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[keithhazel]

I agree about finding people with a common interest makes a very social time, before i moved here i bought an electric bike so joined an electric bike forum and found how people from any walks of life happily shared their interest and knowledge with enthusiasm,24 hours into this one and i again find enthusiasm which i missing from your average daily routine..its a good feeling...thanks for your info which i note with all others.. as for pictures, well to be honest if i stick a picture on here i will be chuffed to bits as it means ive 1) thought about something,2)planned it,3)got excited about it and 4)ACTUALLY DONE IT..dont often get passed the third

 

[keithhazel]

To be honest Woodspirits i replied to it and apologised and explained i perhaps didn't think my post through correctly and was pretty cross with myself..i don't usually upset people unless i actually speak to them..i was going to unsubscribe then but saw replies to my post which made me think along the lines you said..as great info and friendliness was in abundance...but i am going to go along the lines of "2 eyes and 2 ears and only one mouth" read all you can,hear all you can and then if you still dont have the answer ask...
Thanks..
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at the end of the day...... its night

 

[keithhazel]

Thanks Robson you sure know your stuff,it made me go downstairs to look at mine and guessing they don't fit your description much, one i'm guessing is perhaps one of these cheap things places like heart foundation sell that say "fair trade" or similar..as its bottom half is a BIG long unhappy face and the top half is perhaps his head-dress..while the other is 4 bright coloured birds faces the top one having a long yellow beak and side arms ...i bought this when there was a foreign trade fair at Doncaster and the man with the stall full of wood carvings and statues who said he ordered what he wanted and ordered a container load at a time from Indonesia i think he said, before i bought the 3.5 foot bird totem i bought a 4 foot high wood carved piece which was has the main trunk carved with 3... 7x9 inch elephants on either side all beautifully carved by someone who "really" knows Elephants as they have all the body and muscle's showing all over with facial expressions and "movement" in their carving..ALL out of the one piece of wood..the elephants do not touch each other and all have different poses...i marvelled at it the instance i saw it, he said in conversation they basically got paid about £2 a day did the carvers and live "like kings"..this was only 6-7 years ago...like a idiot i have not looked after it and kept it oiled or whatever i should have done so a crack has formed through one of the elephants....AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..

at the end of the day.......its night

 

[keithhazel]

Thanks Robson...when i bought my electric chainsaw it was just for the yearly cutting of my neighbours 20 or so fir/leladi tree's that border her and my garden..i was too windy to get a petrol as thought more to go wrong with it and i would never be away from our gardens...unfortunately last year i found after we had high winds a patch of blown down tree's and thick branch's so my log supplying expanded..i say unfortunately because i hand sawed everything and damaged my shoulder...well was only a basic hand saw too lol...then this year as i travel top deck of buses and like to look out i saw this 300-350 foot of felled branch's that have layed there maybe 6 months.luckily they had been chopped off the huge tree and just left in about 30 pieces so i only have to cut most in half although the ones over 9 inch's thick prove difficult as guess my battery garden saw is about 9 inch's lol...so i collect one and saw till battery goes flat and if have to finish with saw on over 10 incher's after i go round and round...boy they must laugh their socks off in the offices 50 foot away..
keith

at the end of the day....its night

 

[keithhazel]

Hi Woof
Thank you,What's best to spray with,and is that just green wood as assume by the time its dry wood the insects will be dead...
Keith
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at the end of the day..................its night

 

[nephilim]

I'm not a wood carver, but I've been told drying the wood in the airing cupboard for a week first then in the fridge for 2 months will do the job.

This is what I was told, how true it is however.

 

[Goatboy]

Hi Woof
Thank you,What's best to spray with,and is that just green wood as assume by the time its dry wood the insects will be dead...
Keith
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at the end of the day..................its night

Things like wood wasps larvae will live in naturally drying timber for up to a couple of years. Was fun when we seemed the rucksack room of one of our shops with ripped pine boards. About six months later giant wood wasps started emerging. Beautiful & harmless but it freaked out a lot of customers who didn't know what they were. So some grubs can live on for a fair bit.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Robson Valley]

It's possible that the crack in the elephant pole is your doing. Outdoor, air dried wood should have a moisture content of 12-14%. Indoor house winter air is really dry, maybe 4-5%. Oiling the surface, or any finish for that matter, slows the drying process. But the effects are inconsistent. I would not be too concerned, it's wood and for dead stuff, it moves. Totem poles crack like crazy, the carvers just cut right through them. To me, the cracks lend a notion of age.

Even if the surface inch or more seems air-dry, the core keeps sweating for several years. Large works from SE Asia don't get the drying/seasoning time that the wood needs. Plus with their humidity, a slow process at best. I've seen some things, carved boxes, that I would really like to have. But I touch the wood with the back of my hand and the boxes were _really_ cold = wood moisture evaporation. One box in particular was split all to Hello and gone a month later!