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- Thread starter Mhearadh.macleod
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With respect , you say you are new to Bushcraft , so do you have camping / outdoors experience living already? Just asking to understand how much you may know or not.
So and again with respect - the bit that has caught my attention is the ' Live off the Land' comment - I think its a very noble and romantic notion to hold and something all of us have considered at some point. But in reality, not realistic unless you mean to do it for a very short term as your body draws upon its natural reserves of energy and you slowly add sub-calorific foraged foods to postpone / delay the calorific expenditure being too severe?
If you want to build some serious outdoor skills in that environment and prove me wrong ( please do I only want to see you succeed ) you may want to enrole on a few of Patricks courses with an eye on his Veidemann course in Norway. He has an exceptional reputation as an instructor ( not that I've been a student of his ) but he at least being based an teaching in Scotland I think would be a very solid grounding experience for you before you potentially get yourself into a bit of a pickle.
If you want to build some serious outdoor skills in that environment and prove me wrong ( please do I only want to see you succeed ) you may want to enrole on a few of Patricks courses with an eye on his Veidemann course in Norway. He has an exceptional reputation as an instructor ( not that I've been a student of his ) but he at least being based an teaching in Scotland I think would be a very solid grounding experience for you before you potentially get yourself into a bit of a pickle.
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To be quite clear, I do not believe that long term living off the land is viable in the UK unless you’re going down the path of off grid self sufficiency from a fixed base like a smallholding.
I am impressed with your determination. I remember your first posts and the advice you were given then. I have been wondering recently if you were any further forward.
Remember, fishing, you will need a licence, and there are open a closed seasons on each type of fish. Some places such as where I live, have a strict policy of returning them to the river after catching them, so no popping them on the bbq!
Same goes for birds. Roadkill though is another matter. Have you ever eaten crows foxes or badgers?
Hunting such animals for your personal consumption could also be problematic, badgers are well known tuberculosis carriers.
I forage a lot. I live on a moor, and it took me several years to learn my immediate environment. (I've been here just over 24 years now) I know where almost every food source, both vegetative or animal is, but I could not survive on that alone.
The Scottish countryside doesn't provide much, especially in winter. Ponies and deer often starve to death , so please, take your time to learn your environment thoroughly. Take local foraging courses, and remember, foraging in autumn is totaly different to winter, spring and summer.
Most isolated crofts had livestock to provide their needs and produced goods to barter and lived a very hard and deprived life, which they were born to.
I do think you have totaly romanticised the sort of life your ancestors lived. I hope you will realise that you realy are making life hard for yourself, and I do worry greatly about this.
Contact fandabi dosie from you tube, and get some lessons from him. He's spent years learning, and has the best knowledge available. Good luck, and keep us updated.
As for kit, for the the best Visit an army surplace store. It's cheaper and far more robust than specialist camping gear, which is also pricey. You don't need a torn shelter in a gale and snowstorm.
Remember, fishing, you will need a licence, and there are open a closed seasons on each type of fish. Some places such as where I live, have a strict policy of returning them to the river after catching them, so no popping them on the bbq!
Same goes for birds. Roadkill though is another matter. Have you ever eaten crows foxes or badgers?
Hunting such animals for your personal consumption could also be problematic, badgers are well known tuberculosis carriers.
I forage a lot. I live on a moor, and it took me several years to learn my immediate environment. (I've been here just over 24 years now) I know where almost every food source, both vegetative or animal is, but I could not survive on that alone.
The Scottish countryside doesn't provide much, especially in winter. Ponies and deer often starve to death , so please, take your time to learn your environment thoroughly. Take local foraging courses, and remember, foraging in autumn is totaly different to winter, spring and summer.
Most isolated crofts had livestock to provide their needs and produced goods to barter and lived a very hard and deprived life, which they were born to.
I do think you have totaly romanticised the sort of life your ancestors lived. I hope you will realise that you realy are making life hard for yourself, and I do worry greatly about this.
Contact fandabi dosie from you tube, and get some lessons from him. He's spent years learning, and has the best knowledge available. Good luck, and keep us updated.
As for kit, for the the best Visit an army surplace store. It's cheaper and far more robust than specialist camping gear, which is also pricey. You don't need a torn shelter in a gale and snowstorm.
Hmmm... that looks like a list of camping equipment not survival when things have gone wrong in a big way.
And get wilderness first aid training!!! Don't be all the gear and no idea.
I had a recent incident where I cut myself badly, and needed help ASAP as I was bleeding like a stuck pig! Despite being outdoor first aid trained (having worked in forestry, and needing more than your normal first aid course) I jut could not apply pressure to stop the bleed and deal with it asell. I had a surgery a few hundred yards away which was open and able to deal with it. Nearest hospital 25 miles away, and no transport... a weekend or evening would have been a different and serious matter.
I do worry you are taking on something that you need a lot more knowledge for.
I had a recent incident where I cut myself badly, and needed help ASAP as I was bleeding like a stuck pig! Despite being outdoor first aid trained (having worked in forestry, and needing more than your normal first aid course) I jut could not apply pressure to stop the bleed and deal with it asell. I had a surgery a few hundred yards away which was open and able to deal with it. Nearest hospital 25 miles away, and no transport... a weekend or evening would have been a different and serious matter.
I do worry you are taking on something that you need a lot more knowledge for.
Folks, lets just give this chap a list of gear recommendations. That is what he is asking for. He has posted quite a few threads before, and everyone has questioned and informed at great length.
The gentleman is not for turning.
The gentleman is not for turning.
One question you should ask yourself.
Why did your ancestors move to the us(was it after the Highland clearances?) Maybe, it was that without their crofts..they just could not survive off the land. Even modern day crofts have to have an alternative income to be able to survive nowadays. Its a very different world now to what it was before. More rules and regulations for a start. If it was hard then.........think what it is now.
Living wild in the UK? Most who reject modern living, live in converted trucks, are mobile and not liked by the settled community, harassed by police, and locals.
I do recommend ex army gear to start off with though if you are determined to do this. It's tried and tested in harsh environments and would be the best bet, both bang for your buck and for safety.
Why did your ancestors move to the us(was it after the Highland clearances?) Maybe, it was that without their crofts..they just could not survive off the land. Even modern day crofts have to have an alternative income to be able to survive nowadays. Its a very different world now to what it was before. More rules and regulations for a start. If it was hard then.........think what it is now.
Living wild in the UK? Most who reject modern living, live in converted trucks, are mobile and not liked by the settled community, harassed by police, and locals.
I do recommend ex army gear to start off with though if you are determined to do this. It's tried and tested in harsh environments and would be the best bet, both bang for your buck and for safety.
@C_Claycomb yeah fair one. I just wrote a reply with a few recommendations but to be honest, it's not entirely what the OP was asking for.....
get a knife. a morak companion is a good starter for about £30, Rather than be an overnight Rambo why not just do some short trips and build up from there. Knowledge comes slowly with experience, Dip your toe in the bath for starters, Join the local bushcraft group/hiking group/ camping group etc. In time you will be killing bears with your teeth and growing a beard. x
As mentioned by others, it's key you know what you're getting into, and education is very important, as is the mindset to survive. There is a lot of reading material, self-education videos on the net and in-person training from parties well-experienced in the challenge, so some money should certainly go on this. I also agree with suggestions to do build-up 'expeditions' to practise and build-in some experience by actually doing short (and increasingly longer) trips to get to know your kit, your abilities and what the experience is like in reality. This should probably include some time in Scotland so you see what others in the region do / don't do.
My two cents on your some of your kit list questions (where I have any personal experience to draw on):
Hiking boots - I've got Lowa Camino Evo Gtx boots and they're amazing - really comfortable but still rugged enough for the hills / distance. I'd get in-person expert advice on what shape of boot your foot would suit as much as what style / type / price you like, as I was very surprised at how different the options were between manufacturer's based on where they come from. Visit well-regarded footwear stores rather than whatever shop may be nearest - their expertise will save your feet and your wallet.
Rucksack - my pack is by Gregory and whilst mine is more of a larger day-hike pack, they have everything up to 100l packs with plenty of modern tech and a good eye on sustainability too. My day-pack has been extremely durable and still looks almost new despite it being 14 years old and having been dragged for multi-day hikes abroad through primary rainforest, and over-the-mountain day hikes across the UK. The fit is absolutely crucial with this purchase, as it will massively impact how far you can go - a poor fit pack can ruin plans for travelling distance over natural terrain, which could seriously dent your plans. Others may chime in here on this, but I believe that the guide is for your total pack weight to be no more than 20% of your body weight, so you will need to work out just how much stuff you need to take / how light each item must be, to mitigate against long-term injury. This may see you switch thinking to tarp / bivvy / hammock for your shelter, although I've only just got myself a bivvy/hammock so can't yet comment on what it's like vs tent living.
Cooking equipment - for gas, you'll want a reliable and powerful lightweight stove, by a known-brand e.g. MSR, Jetboil or Primus. Don't get the cheap option from Temu! What I would say is that whilst aluminium is light and cheap for the pans, there are questions over long-term health implications for alu, so I would personally try to use stainless steel (although it's a little heavier) or titanium (light but is usually expensive). You'll likely want only a couple of cooking vessels that can do multiple jobs (one pan to boil water for drinks / cook starchy items like rice or pasta / make a stew, and possibly something like a little sauté pan to cook larger items like meat or fish, frying, etc). Avoid single-purpose gadgets, they're almost always not worth the space / weight. Consider making your own cooking utensils from wood when you're there (spoon, tongs).
Fire starters - if you're looking at the likes of a ferro-rod / Swedish fire-steel, don't get a cheap one, the composition of the metals is usually poor, meaning cooler / fewer sparks and much more work to ignite tinder vs a decent quality option. "Light-my-fire" is known as one of the best, with strong white-hot sparks from little effort, and it's small and lightweight. It should last for thousands of strikes, and with dry tinder should help get a fire going. For myself, I have a small tin of my own waxed-cotton pads as a tinder 'assist' to help in wet weather, and there are plenty of videos on how to make these really easily and cheaply. A small amount can ignite from the ferro-rod spark, giving you a wider window to work with your tinder to get your fire going.
Agree with getting a knife, and a Morakniv Companion HD is a good starter rather than spending a fortune on a high-end knife that may not suit your needs. Spend time with this doing different tasks with wood / food to get familiar with it, and get a good quality travel kit for sharpening and maintenance. Spyderco make a slim, two-sided stone for sharpening, and with a strip of leather and some stropping compound you can look after this in the field to keep it in good shape.
Hope some of this is helpful.
My two cents on your some of your kit list questions (where I have any personal experience to draw on):
Hiking boots - I've got Lowa Camino Evo Gtx boots and they're amazing - really comfortable but still rugged enough for the hills / distance. I'd get in-person expert advice on what shape of boot your foot would suit as much as what style / type / price you like, as I was very surprised at how different the options were between manufacturer's based on where they come from. Visit well-regarded footwear stores rather than whatever shop may be nearest - their expertise will save your feet and your wallet.
Rucksack - my pack is by Gregory and whilst mine is more of a larger day-hike pack, they have everything up to 100l packs with plenty of modern tech and a good eye on sustainability too. My day-pack has been extremely durable and still looks almost new despite it being 14 years old and having been dragged for multi-day hikes abroad through primary rainforest, and over-the-mountain day hikes across the UK. The fit is absolutely crucial with this purchase, as it will massively impact how far you can go - a poor fit pack can ruin plans for travelling distance over natural terrain, which could seriously dent your plans. Others may chime in here on this, but I believe that the guide is for your total pack weight to be no more than 20% of your body weight, so you will need to work out just how much stuff you need to take / how light each item must be, to mitigate against long-term injury. This may see you switch thinking to tarp / bivvy / hammock for your shelter, although I've only just got myself a bivvy/hammock so can't yet comment on what it's like vs tent living.
Cooking equipment - for gas, you'll want a reliable and powerful lightweight stove, by a known-brand e.g. MSR, Jetboil or Primus. Don't get the cheap option from Temu! What I would say is that whilst aluminium is light and cheap for the pans, there are questions over long-term health implications for alu, so I would personally try to use stainless steel (although it's a little heavier) or titanium (light but is usually expensive). You'll likely want only a couple of cooking vessels that can do multiple jobs (one pan to boil water for drinks / cook starchy items like rice or pasta / make a stew, and possibly something like a little sauté pan to cook larger items like meat or fish, frying, etc). Avoid single-purpose gadgets, they're almost always not worth the space / weight. Consider making your own cooking utensils from wood when you're there (spoon, tongs).
Fire starters - if you're looking at the likes of a ferro-rod / Swedish fire-steel, don't get a cheap one, the composition of the metals is usually poor, meaning cooler / fewer sparks and much more work to ignite tinder vs a decent quality option. "Light-my-fire" is known as one of the best, with strong white-hot sparks from little effort, and it's small and lightweight. It should last for thousands of strikes, and with dry tinder should help get a fire going. For myself, I have a small tin of my own waxed-cotton pads as a tinder 'assist' to help in wet weather, and there are plenty of videos on how to make these really easily and cheaply. A small amount can ignite from the ferro-rod spark, giving you a wider window to work with your tinder to get your fire going.
Agree with getting a knife, and a Morakniv Companion HD is a good starter rather than spending a fortune on a high-end knife that may not suit your needs. Spend time with this doing different tasks with wood / food to get familiar with it, and get a good quality travel kit for sharpening and maintenance. Spyderco make a slim, two-sided stone for sharpening, and with a strip of leather and some stropping compound you can look after this in the field to keep it in good shape.
Hope some of this is helpful.
The lad is going to kill himself (starvetion) if he is going on with what he has told us.
Probably not though. It is hard to get so far off grid, even in Scotland, that you could starve to death before you could get help…excluding immobilising accidents. Also, this chap has had folk here telling him what cannot be done plenty already. His goals have been dialled back since his first posts. I just think it is time to quit banging on the warning drum. He is gonna go, regardless of online doom sayers….so how about we just try to answer his question about gear?
For lots of gear it is best to try on and look at before you buy.
There are a few good outdoor shops around the Covent Garden area of London.
If you have the chance, I can recommend stopping off in Ambleside, or better yet, Keswick, in the Lake District…densest concentration of outdoor and camping shops in the country, from expensive to bargain.
George Fisher Stores
www.georgefisher.co.uk
I am a big fan of the Koro stove from Alpkit, low, stable, can use a baking tray foil windshield. Can run with bottle inverted in cold conditions. Had mine since 2015.
I would not choose a down sleeping bag for your purpose, synthetic, maybe from SnugPak.
I strongly suggest you re-read your original thread on this subject and the answers you received then.
Learning the ways of UK Bushcraft | BushcraftUK Community
Learning the ways of UK Bushcraft | BushcraftUK Community
Thanks astrohicken and permit me to add that there is actually a morakniv companion with a ferro rod in the handle. its sounds a bit gimmicky but its actually pretty decent and the knife is my one and only blade for all my campcraft and cooking. x
Get a good bergan rucksack, something 60 litres or so. You don't want bigger or you'll take too much, and wear yourself out with the weight.
Then get a bivy bag and tarp,plus a set of walking poles.
Some parracord and pegs, that's shelter sorted. Or you could go the tent route, not sure what to recommend there, others will have better ideas, but ger a good 4 season tent .
A good mat to sleep on. Depending on how your bones are, a military foam mat, or something self inflating, also some sort of groundsheet.
So that's something to sleep under ,on, and now you need something to sleep in, a sleeping bag. Get at least a three season, if not 4. You can always open up a too hot bag and use it like a quilt if you are too warm. Again as already mentioned get a synthetic, as down can be a serious problem when wet.
Pots and pans. One stainless steel pan and frying pan, can be used on a stove or fire. I like the msr ss pots, roomy enough to put stuff in when on the move.
A good quality head torch, plus spare batteries.
Maps! Map and compass, and learn to use them properly..practice on known terrain in good weather, take a course if needed.
Learn how to navigate "blind" ie in a dense fog or snow whiteout.
There are your basics.
I'm getting ready for a trip, and just realised time is short, i need to get on, so start with that little lot, and we can move on from there.
Then get a bivy bag and tarp,plus a set of walking poles.
Some parracord and pegs, that's shelter sorted. Or you could go the tent route, not sure what to recommend there, others will have better ideas, but ger a good 4 season tent .
A good mat to sleep on. Depending on how your bones are, a military foam mat, or something self inflating, also some sort of groundsheet.
So that's something to sleep under ,on, and now you need something to sleep in, a sleeping bag. Get at least a three season, if not 4. You can always open up a too hot bag and use it like a quilt if you are too warm. Again as already mentioned get a synthetic, as down can be a serious problem when wet.
Pots and pans. One stainless steel pan and frying pan, can be used on a stove or fire. I like the msr ss pots, roomy enough to put stuff in when on the move.
A good quality head torch, plus spare batteries.
Maps! Map and compass, and learn to use them properly..practice on known terrain in good weather, take a course if needed.
Learn how to navigate "blind" ie in a dense fog or snow whiteout.
There are your basics.
I'm getting ready for a trip, and just realised time is short, i need to get on, so start with that little lot, and we can move on from there.
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