Crb dbs omg!!!

[Stringmaker]

I have an enhanced CRB check in conjunction with the woodland project I volunteer with. Offically I am a volunteer for my county council, so they are the sponsoring body and I filled in the form as such.

I am about to begin a private venture running a few simple sessions on the odd evening at a small local campsite. This is likely to be unpaid, or at the most will just cover my meagre expenses, and so I will not be a volunteer, an employee or a contractor of this business. I already have public liability cover, first aid certification and basic food hygiene.

As fas as I can make out from reading the various government bumf on the new system (DBS Disclosure and Barring Service), there is no guidance to fit what I plan to do.

As I will never be working alone with children (parents will always be present), my instinct is to advise the campsite owners to satisfy themselves that I am a fit person (sight of my documents) and then to operate like that on trust, you know how we used to.

What say you?

Again, I stress that I will not be a contractor, volunteer or employee, hence my unusual request.

 

[Toddy]

Technically you're self employed then. I reckon that since you are employing you, and the site owners have assured themselves that you are a fit person, then you're covered.

Might be wrong, but if the parents are there too, and you've already been cleared and certificated,

Best of luck with it

Mary

 

[Stringmaker]

Thanks Mary, that's kind of how I view it.

If I were NOT already certificated and checked and was a complete unknown to them then it would be trickier. They already know me as a customer of the pub attached to the campsite, so I am not a stranger.

I am really thinking of their position; if they can show at least basic due diligence then it should be for them to trust me and me not to betray or fail that trust.

If the weather behaves then I shall be running a fire lighting session back through time on Thursday evening.

 

[rik_uk3]

Don't forget liability insurance.

 

[xylaria]

I havent looked into the new system but last year I was running stuff outdoors, so I looked into the CRB checks for myself. Basically you dont get a CRB if you are self employed, you can pay about 20 quid for a print out of accessible police records have on you and show it to anyone that asks. My record is "fiona WHO?,". The campsite owners can apply for a CRB if they want, but you cant apply for one yourself, it has to be someone else that says you have provided them enough verification of identy.

 

[Stringmaker]

Don't forget liability insurance.

I already have it.

 

[Stringmaker]

I havent looked into the new system but last year I was running stuff outdoors, so I looked into the CRB checks for myself. Basically you dont get a CRB if you are self employed, you can pay about 20 quid for a print out of accessible police records have on you and show it to anyone that asks. My record is "fiona WHO?,". The campsite owners can apply for a CRB if they want, but you cant apply for one yourself, it has to be someone else that says you have provided them enough verification of identy.

I know, that is precisely my point. There is no clear guidance on how the new DBS system applies to what I plan to do. The quote from the DBS website is:

"An employer must not apply for a check unless the job or role is eligible for one. They must tell the applicant why they’re being checked, and where they can get independent advice"

I am not an employee or a contractor; there is no defined role or title. I think I might have to go down the route of having my enhanced CRB paperwork on me and just use that to demonstrate that I have at least been checked. I'll keep digging around!

 

[Satyr]

Was it the campsite owners that asked you to run the course or have you decided to run the course and they have given you permission to use their site? If it was the former then you are a volunteer or sub contractor if they pay you (even if only to cover your costs). In that instance the campsite owners would need a CRB if you were working with 'vulnerable groups' e.g. under 18s and people with certain disabilities - if you work with the council you will know the drill. If you have organised the courses and the camp site is providing a venue only then you are the employer and the emphasis is on you to provide a safe environment for any persons attending a course you run. You could as suggested by xylaria have a records show for any parties that want to see it (parents or group organisers) but equally you might want to get a memorandum of understanding written with the campsite to specify what you will and will not be doing there and have your emergency action plans (as simple as mobile phone 999 or grab the site owner and first aid qualifications) for your insurance. Add in a risk assessment to cover hazards (identify the hazard, who it will effect, how badly, how likely and what you can do to prevent it e.g. knives = cuts for students, possible fatal, unlikely to be fatal, prevent by no unsupervised sharps on site and first aid kits to hand). Do all of that and you could register yourself as a company and write off your small expenditure against taxes. If you then employ someone you have to CRB them

 

[boatman]

Lots of the above seems uneccessary. My own archery instructor public liability requires only that participants state if they have any medical reason not to do it and that pregnant woman should be warned and take part at their own risk. For the insurance no risk assessment is required nor emergency procedures. Of course one takes one's own precautions and work with the policies of venues.

 

[Stringmaker]

Thanks folks.

The campsite is providing the venue; all I plan to do is essentially provide some light entertainment by doing fire lighting demos with the option of people having a go. It is not a course; I will not be charging. It is likely to be just an hour or two maybe once a week at most. I spelt all that out to the brokers when I got my PLI and they were chilled about it.

I am going to go and see the campsite owners tomorrow armed with all my paperwork (including site specific dynamic risk assessments). Ultimately the "risk" such as it is rests with them if they engage me so if they are happy I am happy.

 

[xylaria]

I know, that is precisely my point. There is no clear guidance on how the new DBS system applies to what I plan to do. The quote from the DBS website is:

"An employer must not apply for a check unless the job or role is eligible for one. They must tell the applicant why they’re being checked, and where they can get independent advice"

I am not an employee or a contractor; there is no defined role or title. I think I might have to go down the route of having my enhanced CRB paperwork on me and just use that to demonstrate that I have at least been checked. I'll keep digging around!

It seems a glaring loophole in the law. The absolute vast majority of self employed instructors/home tutors/vikings do so pass knowledge to next generation. But The law seems to be that employers must check the background of employees working with vunrable groups, but a self employed person doing the same job can be a convicted perv or a granny basher, that unless they are breaking their probation cant be stopped. Saying that most people are happy with a vaguely in date CRB from another employer, if they ask.

 

[Stringmaker]

It seems a glaring loophole in the law. Saying that most people are happy with a vaguely in date CRB from another employer, if they ask.

I agree and I think that's as far as I can get. I liked the suggestion of a "Memorandum of Understanding" just to have in writing that they have at least attempted due dilligence and satisfied themselves that I am OK.

 

[Dougster]

I've just done a DBS for Supply teaching, despite having CRB by my part time employer the school.

There is an advisor at the Council Offices who should be able to help.

 

[Stringmaker]

Thanks but your circumstances are different to mine. I am not an employee, there is not a defined role or title for what I plan to do. I am not a contractor or volunteer, more like a visiting "entertainer who lights fires for the odd beer".

I am unique!

I am also reluctant to involve any form of state interference if I don't have to, which is where I'm coming to the conclusion at the moment.

Maybe I should declare myself a freeman.........

 

[Dougster]

I know, but the second sentence was hopefully pointing to someone who may actually know, if you stay away from them they can't help.

You don't have to go through them, just ask!